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interview by: Matt Smith
Meshuggah's Tomas Haake is one of the most impressive drummers out there in one of the most experimental bands in metal. He took a half-hour to answer some of my questions about his band's new album, the self-contained and self-inspiring nature of Meshuggah and *gasp* programmed drums.
Maelstrom: With the last two releases, you seem to have gone in different directions: with Catch 33, adding more atmospheric elements, build-ups, less complicated drumming, and with both recent releases adding up to one long composition rather than being broken up – what brought on these changes?
Tomas Haake: Yeah, I don't think it's really like that. We kind of view both of those releases as more experimental releases than your typical Meshuggah albums. It's not really a conscious effort to do it in a certain way, it's just how it came out. Especially with Catch 33, we definitely wanted to do something unique with it and really use dynamics to a greater extent than we have before. It's definitely an album that's all about the vibe, and not so much about any other aspect of what we're doing. It's kind of a sidestep for us. To me the I EP and this one are kind of the opposite sides of the spectrum of what we do. The standard Meshuggah would be in the center of that. Since the I EP last year – it was an EP that we did for another label – that was something that we more or less jammed up or tossed together in a sense, if you will. And with this one (Catch 33), this is an idea we've had for ten years, you know, to do the one track over the full length of the CD, and we didn't really know how it was going to come out, and we didn't really know exactly what we wanted with it. We just knew that we wanted to do something that even for us was something different, and it just happened to come out that way.
Maelstrom: So, are you happy with the result?
Tomas Haake: Oh, absolutely.
Maelstrom: Anything you'd change?
Tomas Haake: No, absolutely not.
Maelstrom: How does the crowd react to your newer, more experimental material rather than the more straightforward, over-the-top stuff you usually do?
Tomas Haake: Well, that's how the I EP is; and it seems that a lot of fans think so too, that I is more over-the-top and this one is something completely different. And it seems – it's kind of hard to tell, the album hasn't been released yet – but it leaked out pretty early on somehow as it always seems to do, so it seems that a lot of fans on the discussion forum have heard it. And the overall response has been very good, which we didn't really expect, or we were curious to see how they were going to react, but people have really gotten into it, it seems.
Maelstrom: What do you think of the drumming parts you've gotten in Catch 33? They seem minimal.
Tomas Haake: Well, Catch 33 is all programmed drums throughout the whole album.
Maelstrom: Oh, really? I didn't even realize.
Tomas Haake: Yeah, I mean it sounds like a drummer, but that's also one of the really taboo things that you don't really do in metal, but we just felt like, when we were maybe 15 or 20 minutes into writing the song, we just felt that the programmed drums that we were using – and we used really good samples and all that – they just really felt right for what we were trying to do. The album is very spur-of-the-moment-type riffs, and whoever came up with a riff would immediately record all four guitars and the bass for it, because otherwise they would forget it. It's really random stuff, so not only would it be very hard to learn this whole album, the drums for it, because it's just so random, you know, and the patterns are not like a similar pattern that is repeated – it's just different patterns all the time. In that respect, it would also have taken SO much time to record live drums, and it wouldn't have even come out like this. We all felt that this was the right way to deal with it, you know, and it (drums) really supported what was going on with the music, I think, so we're really happy with how that came out.
Maelstrom: So do you think the band will have problems playing the new material live?
Tomas Haake: We're not going to play the whole album, of course, and we're actually rehearsing an outtake from it right now that's maybe seven or eight minutes long from around the middle of the CD, from “In Death – Is Life” and some parts of “In Death – Is Death”... those "chapters," as we call them, because it's not really, as you probably understand, really titles or songs but more chapters to a long song. But it's coming along really well, man, and it's not really the drums that are the hardest part, it's actually the guitars, just because of the very random way that they're written, and even for the one who wrote each different part, they don't know the parts themselves.
Maelstrom: Yeah, will you have to keep sheet music on stage the whole time?
Tomas Haake: Yeah, actually we had to do it like that for them to learn the guitar parts. To even be able to do notations for it – it's actually not notes in the common sense, it's kind of a different deciphering system, if you will. It's almost like schematics. It's kind of weird to explain. Anyway, Frederik would take it down to 1/3 of the speed to even be able to make out all of the different finger settings and all that. So it's a lot of weird stuff, absolutely.
Maelstrom: It sounds pretty involved. How else was the writing process for Catch 33 different from previous releases? Did you all work out the guitar parts together?
Tomas Haake: Actually, this time around we consciously decided to do it in a different way in order to be able to create something different that was not your typical Meshuggah album. So this is the first ever whole band effort, you know, all the way through. All four of us were involved with every guitar part, every drum part, every aspect of this whole album except maybe the actual lyrics. But then again, how we added the lyrics to the music and all that has also been something that everyone's been involved with for this one. So it's been a really unique experience in that sense. It's basically been the four of us around one computer in more or less of an office space and not in the studio, you know. The only thing that was really added in the studio was the vocals. So it was definitely written in a different way, and we've worked our way through this album in a different way.
Maelstrom: How has all your overseas touring affected the band? Do you all still get along pretty well and everything?
Tomas Haake: Oh, absolutely. We've been really lucky like that, you know, not only finding each other, people that are similar-minded as far as what we want to do and what we want to create with our music, but also I don't think we have ever had even one fight in the band. Maybe raised voices like five times over the past 15 years – it's unheard of, and so we have a very good relationship.
Maelstrom: That's quite an accomplishment – I guess you all do a good job of releasing your aggression into the music and not unloading it on each other.
Tomas Haake: Yeah, for some reason it seems that we get along really well, we absolutely do.
Maelstrom: What do you do to keep busy between shows when you're touring? I don't suppose you can write much music on the road?
Tomas Haake: Yeah, usually when we write we kind of need to really decide, "Okay, we start writing here," and focus on writing. We're not the kind of band that brings recording equipment on the road and sit with guitars on the bus. We can't really focus in that type of environment; we have to really focus when we write. But nowadays, in the last five years, Meshuggah is a company, too, and there's a lot of work to do all the time. For me it's definitely a full-time job. I'm the one that does all the paperwork and the bookkeeping and all that, and it's quite a lot of work. And if I'm not doing that, I sit very much with the computer and do graphics stuff. So I definitely fill the days, absolutely.
Maelstrom: Graphics for your liners or other projects?
Tomas Haake: Yeah, for everything that we do. I haven't really done any other bands' CD covers or anything, but I probably have hundreds of different ideas for all sorts of Meshuggah-related stuff I've done over the years. I guess it's somewhat of a hobby, so I do a lot of graphics stuff, but somehow it's always related to Meshuggah, because that's what takes up all the time. It completely occupies my head 24/7, so it's really hard for me to sit down and think about doing something for someone else, you know.
Maelstrom: So you guys all do Meshuggah full-time, then, I assume?
Tomas Haake: Yeah.
Maelstrom: So when did you make the transition from having to keep second jobs to just doing the band?
Tomas Haake: Around '99, 2000, I think. Probably 2000.
Maelstrom: You have to be a pretty active listener to appreciate Meshuggah, I think, so do you find that people with musical backgrounds understand better what you're trying to do? Or do you confuse certain audiences when you're on tour?
Tomas Haake: I think to a certain extent people with a musical background or that are more into music overall can probably understand the music better, but then again, we don't necessarily think that you have to understand it. For us, it's equally cool if someone likes it but doesn't even understand why he or she likes it, you know. If it has a certain energy that is transmitted and they can pick it up, it doesn't matter if you understand the music or not. That's pretty much how we feel about it.
Maelstrom: It seems like there are more non-metal influences audible in Catch 33. It's nice to hear that type of experimentation out of what is already one of the most experimental bands out there. What have you been listening to lately, and do you consciously allow outside influences to affect your sound?
Tomas Haake: That's always kind of weird – we don't really listen to music. And that's not only me, it's actually all of us. I don't know why, but it's actually come to that for some reason. The only time that we listen to a lot of music, really, is on tour. It's a favorite past-time on tour. We always play a lot of music on tour. And I don't know if there's a certain reason why you can hear maybe a bit more influences from outside of the metal scene on this one, if it actually is influences from things we've been listening to or if it's...
Maelstrom: Just the direction you're going internally?
Tomas Haake: Yeah, then again, you know, it's definitely not the overall direction that we wanted to take the band. This is definitely for us a sidestep of sorts, and the next album is probably going to be back to a lot more brutal stuff, and more of the intricate drumming, I guess, and the more in-your-face type of metal than this is, definitely.
Maelstrom: Is there any particular reason for that?
Tomas Haake: I don't know. I don't think we've seen this as a natural evolution of the band and that now we're going in this direction. I think it's just a matter of this idea, first of all, of doing the one track over the whole length of the CD, it's an old idea, and for some reason it feels like it just kind of came out this way, and we don't even know why, really, ourselves. But it's definitely in no way a pointer as to where we're going, you know.
Maelstrom: Are there other musicians Meshuggah has worked with or been consciously influenced by, say, on tour or at home, or are you guys completely self-contained?
Tomas Haake: We see ourselves as being that, but of course you're always influenced or at least inspired by what other bands are doing, bands that you like and so on. But really, nowadays it's a conscious effort not to be influenced by outside things or outside music. We really kind of feed off each other in the band. It may be weird for some, but it's a type of symbiosis that we've grown into. We talk a lot, you know, and we share a lot of ideas, and ideas spawn off of the other guys' ideas, and we really feed off each other for ideas. And in that sense, it's almost like we influence ourselves, you know?
Maelstrom: Did that outlook come from your musical training earlier in life? From what I hear, the Swedish government does a lot to encourage students to play music. Has what you learned as kids had a lot to do with where you are today, and is it the case that most Swedes have to go abroad to make a living off of their music?
Tomas Haake: No, I don't think so. First of all, how the government acts when it comes to all forms of culture in this country, it's really cool, you know? But it's all related to some kind of schooling. And still there's always been a problem in Sweden with getting places to rehearse and stuff like that for the bands. I think that issue's probably pretty common in every country, but we never went to school for our instruments or for anything related to music, really, so we haven't really cashed in on how the government supports culture – not in the way that some people have. So I guess it's kind of a different situation for us, but still we've been lucky, not only to find each other, you know – similar-minded people – but to have grown up here and, I think, maybe not so much the government issues but more the support we've had from families and so on, it's been tremendous through the years, so we've been really lucky like that.
Maelstrom: So, you've been with Nuclear Blast since 1991, right?
Tomas Haake: Yeah.
Maelstrom: Well, I guess it's no secret that you've had your problems with that label. Do you know where you'll go for your future releases?
Tomas Haake: Actually, to Nuclear Blast.
Maelstrom: Oh, yeah?
Tomas Haake: Yeah, I think every band has issues with their labels, and even though we've had one issue quite recently, we haven't really had any really major ones. And actually, over the last few years, it's just gotten better and better. Especially now, with the US side of the label, it's something completely different than it was five years ago. So everything is really working nowadays, and they have a greater understanding of how they should work us and promote a band like us. That was the main problems we had during the 90s, I mean they couldn't relate to what we were doing. They liked it, but they didn't know how to promote a band like us, because we didn't have any skulls on the CDs, or we didn't have any cut-up naked women on the covers, if I can be a little bit prejudiced. But during the 90s, everything was such a hassle, I mean they didn't understand us and vice-versa. But the relationship over the last few years has been tremendously better, you know, and actually we agreed yesterday. We sent the signed contracts today.
Maelstrom: For how long?
Tomas Haake: It's one album and two options.
Maelstrom: Will we ever hear any side projects or solo albums from you guys?
Tomas Haake: I mean, that's possible, definitely. I know Marten's been working on some stuff during the off periods when we haven't been doing a lot as a band, but whether he's going to release it or not I don't know. It's not a full-length CD, at least not yet, I think it's like four songs or something. But it's more super-straight, super-simplified, stoner-type rock, you know. So we'll see if he releases that, and as far as the rest of us, maybe at some point, but there's nothing in the plans now, no.
Maelstrom: I'm curious if there is anywhere online or on your Web site where we can find a guide to your newly invented notations that you were talking about earlier? I'm interested to see what it looks like.
Tomas Haake: Actually, I'll ask Fredrik if he wants to put up a link to that. They look pretty weird, man. They had to explain it to me for me to understand it. I had no idea. It really just looked weird, but once he explained it, it was kind of like, "Okay, that's logical." But it's not notes, you know. So, I'll ask him, actually. I think that would be cool, actually, for people to actually see how they went about doing that. From time to time, just check into the Web page. I think it would be under the "gear" section or "links" section. If we do something like that, we will definitely post it on the "news" section, as well.
Maelstrom: Sounds great, I'll keep my eyes open for sure. Do you have any final comments?
Tomas Haake: No, never do, man!
Maelstrom: Well, thanks a lot for taking the time to talk to me, I really appreciate it.
Tomas Haake: Oh, thank you, man, much appreciated. Take care. |