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interview by: Roberto Martinelli
The following interview with Cryptopsy drummer Flo Mounier was conducted with the intention to use excerpts of the conversation for an article on drum triggers for the audio production print magazine EQ, who has kindly permitted us to run the entire transcription on Maelstrom.
Maelstrom: I listened to the new CD twice today, and it’s the same old story: Every new record is the best record.
Flo Mounier: Good! I’m glad you feel that way.
Maelstrom: Well, it takes you three or four years to make each record. I guess there’s a reason why...
Flo Mounier: We worked hard on this one, but we had different line up changes and different things occur that we had to put it aside for a while, come back to it, put it aside, come back to it... It’s been a long process, but we’re pretty happy with ourselves.
Maelstrom: What happened with Martin (LaCroix, vocalist on the live record None So Live). Was he not working out?
Flo Mounier: He wasn’t working out as far as his English not being adequate to write the kind of lyrics that we wanted to have.
Maelstrom: Yeah, he had a bit of a hard time talking to me. But he wouldn’t speak in French. He was ADAMANT.
Flo Mounier: I wanted something that was good. So I called up Lord Worm one day and said, “Martin is not doing the job lyrically. Can you write the lyrics for this album?” And he said, “yeah, that sounds good.” And I told him, “‘cause you coming back is out of the question, obviously.” And he goes, “uhhh.....no.” So we got together and it so happened that he kind of wanted to come back.
Maelstrom: So that’s purely it? That he’s a better lyric writer? Come on, now...
Flo Mounier: Well, it wasn’t only that. The new songs with Martin weren’t progressing very fast. And of course, Lord Worm is Lord Worm. He’s got his place in the scene – he always has – and he’s been a good friend for a long time.
Maelstrom: Let’s talk about triggers. Last time we spoke, after And Then You’ll Beg came out, you mentioned that you were using triggers and acoustic sound for your bass drums. What are you doing on Once Was Not?
Flo Mounier: I wanted to do something different for the drums. First of all, the drum set quality this time is much higher.
Maelstrom: What was your last kit?
Flo Mounier: It was a Pearl Masters series maple kit. But I had been lent it for only a week, so I didn’t have a chance to play around with it and figure out what sizes I wanted. Now I’ve got a Pearl Masterworks (soon they’ll be sending me a Pearl Reference kit!) For this album we used Beyerdynamic mics for the kick drums, and also Beyerdynamics for room mics. This was very important as it was the first time I used room mics; I wanted a big sound – not a mechanical one, one that sounded too triggered or that was too compressed. I really wanted that big, fat rock sound to a certain level without going overboard and losing all the details that I play.
Maelstrom: Now when you say “room mics,” you mean the microphones that are behind the overheads?
Flo Mounier: Yes. Basically, you have the mics that are on the kit, then the overheads, and if the room permits, you can put mics farther out to capture the resonance of the room itself, and give everything a natural reverb and accentuates the overtones. Then I used DDrum triggers on the bass drums.
Maelstrom: Did you use the DDrum module, too?
Flo Mounier: We used different modules. We used a DDrum to trigger the sounds, and then put it through a Roland TD-20 brain. We found the bass drum sounds in that are more natural sounding.
Maelstrom: So all triggers work with all brains?
Flo Mounier: Yes. I’m working now with Roland in order to exclusively use their stuff and work with the new technology that they’re coming out with. We are in negotiation, if you wish. For the snare, I used Beyerdynamic on top and an AKG clip on mic for the bottom.
Maelstrom: How do you like those?
Flo Mounier: Well, AKG is my endorsement. I like them; they’re good; but Beyer is a little bit better in capturing the true drum sound. Those are the mics that our producer, Sebastien Marsan, uses in his studio and prefers. We also used a DDrum trigger on the snare.
Maelstrom: Funny, it didn’t sound like it’s triggered.
Flo Mounier: It depends on the part. For some parts that are extremely fast, we wanted a little something underneath, so we used the trigger.
Maelstrom: Indeed. There are a couple parts on the record where you go insane fast on the snare, and I remember it sounding different there.
Flo Mounier: Yeah. That’s the only part where we used it; as a bottom coat, if you wish. It was only just to get... actually, it sounds stupid... but only just to get a more natural sound, which I normally have when I play live, but I play with a bit more energy then. Like when I talked to you before, I still don’t like to use triggers, and on the snare especially, and that’s why [triggers] were only used a few times on the album. This is because I do a lot of double strokes and ghost notes, and a trigger would pick all of those up. It would be ridiculously... not dynamic. I wouldn’t want to neglect the whole jazz / groove element to my playing.
We actually did trigger all the toms as well, but ended up not using any of it because of all the dynamic work there, too.
Maelstrom: When was the first time you ever used triggers in your drumming career?
Flo Mounier: I think it was right after None So Vile, which was ‘96-97. I found that in a live context, it was a lot easier to have them there. At the time, we didn’t have our own sound guy, and the in-house sound guys didn’t know necessarily that it was going to be that fast and everything needed to be heard. So the mics would be like rock sounding ones, and instead of it being a defined sound, it was like a low rumble. In a live situation, I try to use both the natural and triggered sound, but depending on the board, we sometimes can’t, and we’ll go with the triggers.
Maelstrom: Can you remember your first impressions when you used triggers?
Flo Mounier: I never liked it. I still have a problem with the clickiness of them. I don’t mess around with my module (which is the TD-20) as much as I should, but I’d say that if you’re going to do this type of music, definitely buy triggers. They’re especially helpful live. For any other kind of music, I don’t really see the point of it, unless you have a kit set up to do rock and roll, but the next song in your set has more of a drum and bass sound. Then it would be very helpful.
Personally, I like to hit my drums hard. Over the years, I’ve come to hit harder and harder to get the best possible sound out of a drum. I’ve found that trying a variety of hits, of dynamism, is where you get the richness of a good drum set. You’ll see a lot of people in extreme metal with fairly decent kits, and you’ll see their drum skins all blotted and taped up from being triggered. It’s dead sounding, naturally. I find that if you have a good kit, then make it sound good. You don’t need that trigger. It can become a pain, because it’s all electronic, so you have all the issues of maintenance and making sure it works properly.
Maelstrom: Yes, I’m trying to get my mind around this. Fredrik Nordstrom, the Swedish producer, said that Nick Barker, who I think triggers his cymbals...
Flo Mounier: He triggers a whole bunch of stuff.
Maelstrom: ...right, that he has an $8,000 drum kit and he triggers everything.
Flo Mounier: Well, once you’re sponsored, it doesn’t really matter. It’s more for the look of the photos. Nick is a great drummer, and I guess he hits lightly to conserve energy. But if you hit lightly, you need to a have a great, great sound guy out there to make it happen everyday for you. In the studio, too, people find it a lot easier to correct errors when everything is triggered.
Maelstrom: Indeed. That’s a common theme I bring up: how much technology is too much? Like, with the inclusion of Beat Detective...
Flo Mounier: What’s Beat Detective? Is that something that corrects things?
Maelstrom: Yes. It corrects out of place hits. Now your bass hits are off time; now they’re on.
Flo Mounier: Wow. Ok.
Maelstrom: Heh. If you’ve never heard of it, I guess it means you don’t use it!
Flo Mounier: No. No. There is some stuff we clean manually, like if the take is excellent, but there’s a part where the spacing needs to be adjusted – like, if it happens too fast or something – but not to the extent you’re describing. This is point that I want to raise to the people reading this article: “If you can play it live, then great. If what you put out in the studio what you can’t reproduce live, that’s when triggers, as well as digital studio manipulation, become a problem. Because people will notice. If you put out a record that’s completely balls-out tight and sick right on the money, and then you come live and it sounds like popcorn because your feet and hands aren’t matching... If you’re buying triggers to make things easier for you live, but you can play just as well and hit just as hard without them, then I think that’s fine. If you need triggers to play, then you need to work on your playing, and not work to buy more triggers.
Should you buy them? Sure, if that’s what you want. But don’t buy them if you think they’ll make you a better drummer.
Maelstrom: Around the late 90s, it seemed that there was a lot of backlash against triggers. The general perception of triggers was that, “they make it easier for you to play,” “you don’t have to hit so hard,” “it’s a crutch,” “it means you’re not such a good drummer...” But more recently, it was brought to my attention that in fact triggers can improve your playing because they bring out any mistakes that you make.
Flo Mounier: Absolutely. By hearing your drums more through the triggers, you become more aware that you have to be as precise as possible. It’s like playing with distortion on a guitar, and then trying to play the same thing on a Mesa Boogie Triple Rectifier, which brings out a lot more of the high-mids in your picking. You’ll notice if your picking is off more than with a Metal Zone with a Marshall head, let’s say.
Maelstrom: Where are your beaters when they’re not hitting the kick drums?
Flo Mounier: They’re usually away from the head. My foot is relaxed when it’s not hitting the bass drum. I don’t want any tension of it pushing against the bass drum. It works well for me because I don’t have any problems with double triggering.
Maelstrom: Yes, this is a problem I hear about that I’m sure I’ll come across when I get mine.
Flo Mounier: Well, there are different sensitivities that you can work with. But the ideal technique is to be at rest when not playing, and to have the beater away from the head.
Maelstrom: Do you play heel down or heel up, Flo?
Flo Mounier: I play heel up mostly. I practice a lot of different things with heel down. It’s a great technique, but since I learned heel up, it’d be like starting all over again. But I show a lot of warmup exercises with heel down on the DVD that I’m working on right now.
Maelstrom: You’re working on a DVD? That’s fantastic!
Flo Mounier: Yeah, yeah. Three hours and more of footage that will be out at the end of September. It’ll be available through the Cryptopsy website and my website as well, www.flomounier.com.
Maelstrom: Are you going to have a lot of chit-chat, like on Neil Peart’s video?
Flo Mounier: I’m not sure. I haven’t seen his video.
Maelstrom: He talks a lot.
Flo Mounier: I don’t talk that much. I share a lot of different stuff. There’s stretching stuff, a lot of different exercises for endurance building, a lot of solo footage... stuff like that.
Maelstrom: It’s high time. I’m sure there’s a lot of demand for it. Tell us about your experience with different trigger makes.
Flo Mounier: DDrum and Roland are the two big ones.
Maelstrom: Isn’t Alesis a big one, too? Although theirs are tape ons.
Flo Mounier: Yeah, Yamaha used to make tape ons, too. But you need something that’s practical, that you can take off and put on every day... that’s durable. In that sense, it’s Roland and DDrum. Roland has a new one for the bass drums that’s supposed to fit all variety of hoops, but it doesn’t fit mine. And I told the guy at Roland, “look, you make your product that’s supposed to fit every hoop, then why don’t you look in to it to make sure that’s true?”
Maelstrom: I’ll tell you, man, I got a Mapex Orion drum kit. And it pisses me off because the 22" bass drums don’t fit into any 22" hard drum cases. I have top of the line drums, and I’m not endorsed...
Flo Mounier: You gotta take care of them.
Maelstrom: It seems that trigger technology is way behind in terms of toms. What is up with that?
Flo Mounier: I think that things are changing radically. You can now download some [tom samples] that are so close to reality that it’s almost too close.
Maelstrom: And that scares you?
Flo Mounier: Not really. Drum sounds and tuning are very personal things. I’m concerned about finding a drum kit that will be consistently amazing, with great reverb and resonance to it.
It comes back again to the style of music. Steve Gadd and players like that don’t really use triggers, and this is what the music instrument industry tries to cater to: the blues, jazz and rock musicians. There’s almost no metal. But it’s in metal that people have started to use the triggers on toms and such. It’s beginning to become respected a lot more: you’re seeing more metal drummers in drum magazines.
I made a sales pitch to Roland, saying they weren’t going to sell their triggers by marketing them to rock musicians... to musicians that won’t really use them; that they needed to cater to extreme metal in particular, and you have to connect with those fans through people that they recognize, like Derek Roddy and Gene Hoglan. But that’s something that’s changing slowly. There’s still the same cliches about metal: that it’s noise, and blablabla.
Maelstrom: Have you ever played electronic drum kits, like the one Roland has that’s like $6,000?
Flo Mounier: Yeah! Hehehe. They want to give me one!
Maelstrom: And you want to let them!
Flo Mounier: Yeah, yeah. Don’t have to twist my arm... I think it’s a great practice kit. The cost of living has gone up a lot. People don’t buy houses when they’re in school or when they’re 20 years old. If you have an apartment, these kits are the best thing to have.
Maelstrom: It’s a lot of money for a practice kit, Flo.
Flo Mounier: Yes, but it has a great feel to it. Also, I use the pads to trigger samples live.
Maelstrom: Has it been you experience that this kit affects how you play, so that when you go back to a regular kit, it feels odd?
Flo Mounier: Well, you do have to get used to it, but when you do, it’s like riding a different bicycle.
Maelstrom: How about as far as the physical response off the drum skin?
Flo Mounier: It’s quite close. It’s really, really good technology.
Maelstrom: Are the rubber surfaces better than the mesh ones?
Flo Mounier: I had the rubber ones for a long time. I like the mesh ones a lot better, plus the fact that you have an actual rim.
Maelstrom: Does bass pedal choice make a big difference?
Flo Mounier: Yes. I use Pearl Eliminator. I like all the things you can tweak on them.
Maelstrom: That’s true, but don’t you just find one setting that works for you and never change it again?
Flo Mounier: Yeah... (laugh) Yeah, you’re right. That’s a point I want to bring up: any high quality pedal, be it Pearl or Tama, or Sonor, or Axis (which I can’t stand, by the way, but that’s just me)... will be great once you get used to it. Once that period of adaptation is over, you can go just as fast on any of them.
Maelstrom: What don’t you like about Axis?
Flo Mounier: I feel it’s made just to go fast. This is a company that targeted extreme metal drumming. I find the pedal a bit too buttery. Like I said, I like to hit hard, and to get a good response with the Axis, you have to put the beater up closer to the head... I don’t like the response at all from it. Then again, if I have it for a month, I’ll get used to it.
Maelstrom: Paul Bostaph started getting me to use ankle weights. What do you think?
Flo Mounier: I don’t use them, but it could be an idea. On my DVD, there are tons of techniques that are really useful for double bass drums and going fast; it’s more a question of working your ankles than your legs. To the right of your right shin bone, you have a muscle that starts at the top and comes down like a triangle. That’s the muscle you need to be working to get really good speed. And it’s not like I mind divulging all this stuff. It’s not really secret.
Maelstrom: Well, the secret is, keep practicing!
Flo Mounier: Exactly. There’s no secret to that.
Maelstrom: Honestly, I’m kind of wary of instructional DVDs. You probably know about a fellow Canadian, Tim Waterson?
Flo Mounier: Right, right.
Maelstrom: I find the whole thing about “world’s fastest drummer” to be a little bit misguided, in the sense that it’s all about how fast you can go and not...
Flo Mounier: ...how good you can play?
Maelstrom: Have you ever heard his music?
Flo Mounier: No.
Maelstrom: It sucks.
Flo Mounier: Really?
Maelstrom: Yeah. It’s terrible.
Flo Mounier: Hahahah!
Maelstrom: If you go to his website, he has some clips of it. It’s a rock band that’s got a melodic woman singer, who’s ok, but he does this fast double kick stuff seemingly for no reason. It doesn’t fit the music at all.
Flo Mounier: That’s totally my philosophy, man. We try to do something that’s musical, rather than trying to outdo everyone else, which seems to be the thing in this music these days.
Maelstrom: Yes. There’s something about Once Was Not that’s intelligent and makes sense. You can listen to it over and over again.
Flo Mounier: It was written that way. All of it was done on a metronome. Instead of it being like, “on this part we’re going to fly out and go crazy, let’s use this tempo, because it fits the part properly.” I think we spent more time programming the metronome than playing the songs!
Actually, Tim contacted me a few times asking me if I wanted to do the Drum-O-Meter thing, because he thought I could break all the records. And I said, “but don’t you hold the record?” And he said, “yeah, yeah!”
Maelstrom: I think he needs some competition, because he’s pretty far ahead of the other guys who do this. But in the end, who cares?
Flo Mounier: Exactly! I was like, “dude, I don’t practice that on a daily basis. It’s not my main focus and you’d probably beat the crap out of me. And I just don’t care.”
Maelstrom: I see you haven’t cut your hair since And ThenYou’ll Beg.
Flo Mounier: Uhh... occasionally I do. Sometimes it needs a trim. But it’s my new thing; I let it go. I’m getting older and I’m trying to be cool.
Maelstrom: Are you getting laid more because of it?
Flo Mounier: Hahaha! Uh... I can’t really say anything about that. I’ve been with the same girl for nine years... By the way, I have a kid now.
Maelstrom: Oh? When was your child born?
Flo Mounier: On January 6th, 2005.
Maelstrom: What’s his name?
Flo Mounier: Louis. My girlfriend also liked the name.
Maelstrom: I read a book about the rise of the European nation, and how in these countries it makes less and less sense to get married, even if the couple has children. Is that the case in Canada?
Flo Mounier: No! I think it’s society in general. People aren’t getting married that much anymore, because it’s a church thing.
Maelstrom: Yes. I have some issues with marriage having to be legally recognized. I don’t think I want the state to have anything to do with the woman I choose to make a commitment to.
Flo Mounier: Yes, but it was more of a religious thing to do. But since religion has taken a bit of a spill recently, I think people are getting married less.
Maelstrom: I recently went to France to attend the wedding of a cousin of mine. It was my second French wedding. It was so unromantic.
Flo Mounier: Really?
Maelstrom: Yes. It all seems to revolve around signing papers. You aren’t allowed to get married in the church until you go to city hall to sign the papers, and then right after the church ceremony, you have to sign more papers right then and there. At that point I think I would run.
Flo Mounier: The most romantic part is the after party in the castle.
Maelstrom: Yeah, that was pretty cool. Are you still working in security systems?
Flo Mounier: No. I’m not doing anything. I’ve got so much work to do with these different projects and the DVD. The record company severely financially limits you contractually. So we make our money by touring. I’ve started to do clinics. I’m not “working,” but I am working to do what I want to do.
Maelstrom: Good for you. So, when are you going to be in one of these drum magazines?
Flo Mounier: Soon! Soon! “Modern Drummer” is looking to do a piece.
Maelstrom: They better, because they interview all these stupid drummers.
Flo Mounier: Hahahahah!
Maelstrom: That’s how I feel: they interview these drummers because people buy those bands’ records, and not because the drummers are especially good or remarkable. That’s why I don’t buy those mags: I think they’re dumb.
Flo Mounier: Yeah, there’s a lot of stuff that’s useless, you’re right! Hahahah!
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