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interview by: Roberto Martinelli
Current Soilwork drummer Dirk Verbeuren has been on this writer’s list of endearing drummers since Aborted’s Goremageddon, in which Verbeuren served as a session musician. There was something unmistakably juicy and frenetic about his playing that made the record so much of what it is.
Of course, Verbeuren has been a drummer of note for years now, having put out three studio albums with the band he founded, Scarve, and being featured in various session and semi-permanent roles with notable bands as Phazm, Yyrkoon, and Lyzanxia. Certainly any chance to geek out on drums with this dynamic player was a chance to be taken.
Maelstrom: Dirk, are you Belgian?
Dirk Verbeuren (below): I am, yes.
Maelstrom: You must be from the north.
Dirk Verbeuren: Yes, I’m from Antwerp.
Maelstrom: I had the good fortune of visiting Bruges.
Dirk Verbeuren: Aha! Very nice.
Maelstrom: It was splendid.
Dirk Verbeuren: I’m glad you liked it.
Maelstrom: Have you got your drum set-up online?
Dirk Verbeuren: No, I’m working on that.
Maelstrom: Ok, can you tell us what your set-up is?
Dirk Verbeuren: For the moment, I use two different set-ups. For live, I use Meinl Mb20 cymbals: a 22" Heavy Bell Ride, which I like a lot — it’s pretty dry, but you can still use it as a crash, which I like to do. It has a very distinct sound.
For the crashes, I use the Mb20 Heavy 16" and 18". For splashes, I use the Rock Splash 10" and 12". I have a Heavy Soundwave Hi-Hat. My auxiliary hi-hat is the Custom Soundwave Powerful. For my china, I use the Mb20 Rock china, and I also have a Generation X Electro Stack.
In the studio, I replace some of the Mb20s with Byzance, as they are a bit thinner and have a more beautiful sound. The Mb20s are pretty heavy load cymbals. They’re great for live and shining through, but in the studio, I like to have a little bit more distinct sound.
Maelstrom: Do you really feel that the nuance of various cymbals really comes through in the production?
Dirk Verbeuren: I don’t know. I guess it’s more about creating the right feeling for me when I’m playing. Because cymbals sound more or less the same on albums. It depends on producers. Daniel Bergstrand is really good at capturing cymbal sounds, and he experiments a lot with that. With him, every little detail can definitely make a difference. He’ll put microphones on everything. Other producers might only use 10-12 microphones for the whole kit, and in that case, cymbal choice won’t make so much of a difference.
Maelstrom: So aside from the Gen X stack, it sounds like you like to stick to the traditional b20 bronze cymbals.
Dirk Verbeuren: Well, I haven’t had the chance to go to the Meinl factory yet. They sent me a bunch of stuff when I got endorsed, and I really liked them.
Maelstrom: What drum shells are you using?
Dirk Verbeuren: I play Tama Starclassic Maple in Cherry Red Sparkle. I have 12"x10" and 13"x11" tom-toms, and a 16"x18" and an 18"x18" floor tom. The biggest floor tom is on the left side. The snare drum is a 14"x4" piccolo, which I really like a lot. I usually take that on all tours. It’s the greatest snare drum. It’s versatile and very precise. You can tune it any way you want. This is not the case with a lot of snare drums — they have a few tunings that are good for them; other settings add noise. This drum is great for when you play stuff that incorporates blast beats, but also very hard grooves.
I only added the fourth tom a couple of years ago. It’s the same with cymbals. I just started adding stuff recently. It was very basic for a long time. When I first started playing, I had a tiny kit because I couldn’t afford anything else. I thought it was cool to learn every element well and apply the [few instruments] in a lot of different ways. For example, I use the floor tom sometimes as a substitute for the kick drum, or use the kick/tom as combinations. I’ll use the ride in an infinite amount of ways: I use it as a crash, I use the bell a lot... when I add an element, I really want to master it — before adding ten elements and just hitting them, you know?
In the studio, we might add some crashes or things if they’re lying around. Like on the last Soilwork record, there are some songs where I use an extra crash. It was lying around in the studio and it was broken, but it had a cool sound.
Maelstrom: How big are your kick drums?
Dirk Verbeuren: 22"x18".
Maelstrom: I’ve been thinking that my next kit will have 20" kicks.
Dirk Verbeuren: That can be pretty cool. I’ve tried 20", and it has a very good response. You have to see if you can tune them well enough. I like to de-tune the kick drums. The resonant head, especially, is pretty loose.
Maelstrom: Isn’t it harder to play at the speeds that you do to have the (batter) heads so loose?
Dirk Verbeuren: Yeah, it’s a little harder, but it’s good practice!
Maelstrom: I noticed that guys like Mike Terrana and Kai Hahto use 20" kicks.
Dirk Verbeuren: It’s funny you mention them. I did a festival a couple months ago, and they were both there. I spoke with Kai a lot. Two amazing drummers.
Maelstrom: I’ve been into your stuff since I heard your guest drumming on the Aborted record, Goremageddon. The guy they got after you is also great, but there’s something about what you did on that record that’s more rabid, hungry, and intense.
Dirk Verbeuren: Yeah, I was pretty angry during that recording, so I guess that helped. Hahaha! I really was, so I guess I was in the right state of mind to play that style of music. I was very unprepared; it was a very last-minute thing. And so I was in the studio, asking, “can I put this [drum part] here?” It ended up being a lot of blast beats. They hadn’t planned [the drum parts] so much. They said later that there turned out to be much more blast beats than they had [anticipated].
Maelstrom: What were the circumstances of that? Why did they bring you in at the last minute? Did they lose their drummer?
Dirk Verbeuren: Wellll... there was something like problems with his time schedule — which I never really knew the details about — and there were some other problems in the band at that time, so he ended up leaving. I don’t really know. The only thing I know is that I was contacted a few weeks prior to the recording and with the other things I had to do, I didn’t have much time [to prepare for the Aborted session]. But that’s the way it is with session work: unless you’re supposed to do it from the beginning of the project, people will call you up because they need you immediately. You get used to improvising and doing what you can at the spot.
Maelstrom: It’s funny that you mentioned that you didn’t really map out what you were going to play. To me, it seemed very calculated.
Dirk Verbeuren: Really?
Maelstrom: I think it’s song #3 (“The Saw and the Carnage Done” – ed) that I’m very fond of. I’m sure you didn’t record them in the order they appear on the record.
Dirk Verbeuren: No, I didn’t. That song was one of the last ones I recorded, because it was not finished even on the writing side. That song, and I think #6, were finished while I was in the studio. They had a bunch of riffs, and they put them together while I was there. I heard the finished thing for the first time as I was recording it. It was totally not calculated at all! (Laugh)
Maelstrom: Yeah, but what you do — I’m particularly thinking of the part at the end, which repeats twice in the song. It’s slow but has the super fast kick drums; the pattern that you do adds so much to the song.
Dirk Verbeuren: That’s cool. Thanks.
Maelstrom: And now you’re saying you pulled it out of your ass.
Dirk Verbeuren: That’s the deal with session work, you have to be able to come up with stuff on the spot. And personally, I seem to come up with my best stuff when I don’t think about it too much [beforehand]. It’s good to plan and rehearse, but you can lose that spontaneous side. If you get bored f always playing the same thing again, you might not play it with the same sparkle as before. Having to do it then and there adds to the whole urgency of the thing. Maybe the feeling you described comes a lot from there.
Maelstrom: If you can remember back to those recording sessions, how did you record the drums? In one take, in pieces, or in one take and then going in and re-recording pieces that you weren’t satisfied with?
Dirk Verbeuren: A little bit of both. It depended on how well I knew the song. Some of the songs I had practiced a little bit prior to going there, so for those I tried to do a few entire takes, like three or four, and take the pieces that I liked best overall. Either that, or if there’s a take I really like with just a few [sloppy] details, I’ll record those details again. But for other songs, like the one you mentioned and that other one that was left on the last moment, those were completely done in sections of like 30 seconds, because I absolutely didn’t know the songs. For the Carcass cover (there’s a Carcass cover? Not on my version – ed), I was a huge fan of that album and I knew the song by heart. We kind of decided on the spot to record that song, so I said, “ok!” I listened to the whole [original] song once or twice to remember, then recorded the whole thing entirely.
Maelstrom: How is it different with Soilwork, since you’re a permanent member?
Dirk Verbeuren: Well, when I recorded [Stabbing the Drama], I wasn’t yet! We did a few days of rehearsal before the recording, and from there it was the same, I guess. I knew the songs a little bit better. With Daniel [Bergstrand – producer] I like to do entire takes. Since I improvise a lot, there is [specific] coherence to [each] take. That’s what I try to achieve. So Daniel and me will decide which takes we liked best, and then put parts from each of those together if we think it would sound good.
Maelstrom: It’s quite funny to hear you talk about the Soilwork record, and how you all got together “a few days before” to practice for the studio recording... I mean, I know you’re all pros, but that sounds so cavalier to me.
Dirk Verbeuren: Well, when I started out — with Scarve and stuff — I rehearsed a lot, and everything was super prepared. But as time goes by, not only do you get more comfortable with everything, but you simply have less time. For example, Soilwork spends so much time on the road, that when we finally have some time at home, the last thing we want to do is go sit in the fucking rehearsal space all day long. We see each other already enough — it’s the same with most bands like this, I think — so guys work on their own. In Soilwork, the guys that made the songs on the record made demos of the tracks, with basic drums on them. So some ideas were already there, and I expanded on them.
You kind of let it flow; that’s why over-rehearsing after a while is not necessary anymore. I think you have to go through that phase when you start out as a musician, but once you get more confidence and know what you can do, you can just go there and play.
Maelstrom: Yeah, it dashes the idea of the dedicated work ethic of being in a band, starting it, and committing to rehearse together at least twice a week. It wasn’t so long ago that I talked to Cryptopsy, and Flo told me they practiced four times a week.
Dirk Verbeuren: Yeah, well of course with that style of music, there’s a whole physical side that comes into play. I would say that with Soilwork, it’s not too difficult to me physically. But Scarve, for instance, is obviously more demanding. For that part, I would need to rehearse much more. For Cryptopsy, I know their music is super complicated. Soilwork is a lot more straightforward. There are some complex things in there, but in no way is it comparable to a band like Cryptopsy.
Maelstrom: How much do you practice on your own?
Dirk Verbeuren: It’s very variable. I try to practice when I can, but like I said, when you come home from a lot of touring, that’s the last thing you want to do. There’s been years in my life when I practiced all the time: I set schedules for myself where I practiced three to four hours a day, or something like that. I did that for several years, and then I was over it. I just wanted to focus on making music. Practicing exercises for myself, I only do when I warm up for shows. Other than that, I don’t do them anymore. Maybe I should!
When I see something new that I like, I try to incorporate it straight away. I try it a little and then see if I can pull it off on stage in a song.
Maelstrom: What heads are you using for your drums?
Dirk Verbeuren: Mostly Remo Pinstripes for the toms. Sometimes I use Evans. I tried those new ones with the silver lining...
Maelstrom: The EC2s? How did you like them?
Dirk Verbeuren: Yeah! I used them for recording. I dunno. It was kind of good, but I lacked the bottom of the pinstripes. They had good attack, but I’m not totally convinced. For the snare, I use the Remo Emperor X, which is incredibly long-lasting. It’s ridiculous. I had always been looking for a long-lasting skin. So I tried that Kevlar one. That’s of course very long-lasting, but it doesn’t necessarily sound the best because it’s so thick. I hit pretty fucking hard, especially on rim shots and especially playing live, and that [Emperor X] lasts entire tours and studio sessions — the same skin. I think I used one skin for two recording sessions and two tours, and it was still sounding good. It’s a double layer head, but it has a big black protection piece underneath. I was using the Powerstroke 3s, which have the protection on top.
For my kicks, recently I tried some Evans head that has a ring on it in which you can add dampening, which is supplied. It sounds really good. Either that, or I’ll use the Pinstripe or Powerstroke 3 by Remo. It depends on what’s available.
Maelstrom: But aren’t you always triggering your bass drums in the style of music that you play?
Dirk Verbeuren: No. I don’t use triggers.
Maelstrom: Not on anything that you do?
Dirk Verbeuren: There are some recordings where we used Sound Replacer to mix in a sample with my bass drums. Like on the Aborted record, we used a lot of Sound Replacer, because obviously there’s a big volume difference between the slow and fast speeds. But my kick drum sound is still there, particularly on the slower parts, you mainly hear the real sound. But when it goes fast, the trigger takes over. There have been a few records like that. But on the Soilwork album or any of the Scarve records, there are no triggers. Daniel [Bergstrand] doesn’t like to use them... at least not with me. They’re all completely natural, compressed sounds.
Maelstrom: Wow. I’ll have to go back and listen attentively to that. I’ve talked to big metal producers and drummers, like, again, Flo Mounier, who says he doesn’t like triggers, but uses them because he feels he has to.
Dirk Verbeuren: With that style, it’s understandable. But it takes a certain producer; Daniel spends a lot of time on the drums. Once they’re recorded, he can be in there for weeks on the drum sounds. He and I are very keen on keeping it as natural as possible. To me, it’s a good feeling to know that what I hear is what I played... although with triggers, it’s the same thing. But a lot of trigger sounds don’t sound that good, you know.
Maelstrom: Well, some people like “typewriter.” I don’t, but others do.
Dirk Verbeuren: Yeah, it’s a question of taste. I’m a big Pete Sandoval fan, but I way prefer the sound he’s got on Formulas Fatal to the Flesh than I do on the latest recordings, where you can hear everything super clear, but it’s like a drum computer sound.
Maelstrom: You don’t think Formulas Fatal is all triggered?
Dirk Verbeuren: It’s not, actually. Only the kicks are triggered. I read an interview where he said he didn’t like the recording because he couldn’t hear the toms enough. I like that record because it really sounds like he’s playing. The new records don’t sound horrible, but it’s too computer-ish for me.
Maelstrom: He’s a funny case. There are certain guys in the metal world, like Hellhammer, where people will say he’s a joke because he triggers everything. And then I’ll ask, “like Pete Sandoval?” And the same people will say, “no! Not like Pete Sandoval! He’s amazing!” But, it’s like... the same thing.
Dirk Verbeuren: Ha! Exactly. And fucking Hellhammer can play. His trigger sounds are among the most awful I’ve ever heard — on that point, I agree — but he still has to play that shit. I saw him with Mayhem a couple months ago, and it was amazing.
That’s the other thing with triggers. You get the tendency to not hit as hard. At least some drummers don’t.
Maelstrom: Yeah, but man, if you’re going to be playing 800-1000 notes a minute on your bass drums, what are you concerned with hitting hard for?
Dirk Verbeuren: Exactly.
Maelstrom: When you play live, you don’t use triggers, either?
Dirk Verbeuren: No.
Maelstrom: Doesn’t that get you in trouble?
Dirk Verbeuren: Not as far as I know. Maybe I don’t have as good sound as other drummers... I’ve been thinking about using triggers live on the kicks.
Maelstrom: I think that’s unusual. Even metal bands like Stratovarius trigger their kicks, and even the toms are triggered.
Dirk Verbeuren: It’s hard for me to tell. I’ve seen some videos of me playing here and there, but you’re never in the crowd when you’re playing.
Maelstrom: What kind of mics do you use?
Dirk Verbeuren: For recording, it varies a lot, but for live, I use Milab microphones, from Sweden. Our sound guy is endorsed by them, and they’re great microphones. They’re great to use with compression. He knows how to use compression so it shines through. I actually do use one trigger microphone: on my snare. But it doesn’t go to a trigger module, or anything; it goes directly to the mixing desk. He adds some distortion to that, which allows the rim shot to shine through. It’s a regular red DDrum one. When you hit the rim, it picks up a click sound, and by adding some distortion to it, you can make the click sound shine through. So it’ll only work when I do rim shots; not for when I do blast beats. It’s a technique that Daniel uses in the studio as well. I think it’s a pretty widespread technique.
Maelstrom: Just the other day, I got to hear a snare with a wood hoop. My next snare is definitely having one of those. It some how made the snare sound louder... maybe more crack. The rim shot was so good.
Dirk Verbeuren: Cool! I’ll have to try that out.
Maelstrom: Why are you moving to California?
Dirk Verbeuren: Why am I moving to California? Because I’m getting married. I’m going to have a lot of traveling to do, but then again, Soilwork plays in the US a lot. I’ve lived in France most of my life, so it’s something different and cool. I’ve liked the US ever since I started touring here.
Maelstrom: How many languages do you speak? Five?
Dirk Verbeuren: Well, only three.
Maelstrom: French, English and Flemish?
Dirk Verbeuren: Well, it’s actually Dutch. That’s my mother language. I understand a little bit of German; and Swedish, obviously, because I’m always with those guys.
soilwork.org meinlcymbals.com tama.com scarve.net goremageddon.be |