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interview by: Roberto Martinelli
Ask any number of metal drummers who their favorite drummers are, and you’ll of course get a variety of answers. Sure, the same names tend to come up: Dave Lombardo, Nicko McBrain, Pete Sandoval... but it seems that EVERY metal drummer who’s made any sort of mark in the scene will always, ALWAYS mention Gene Hoglan.
The man looks like an oak tree in person. Get him on stage and behind the kit, and the way his huge frame and wild hair sways and rocks while playing will make you envision a weeping willow. It’s almost as if he’s impossibly large. I’m not exactly small at six feet and change and 180 pounds, but from the few times I’ve met the man in person, all I can remember is his being eight feet tall and about four feet wide.
If you’ve read Maelstrom regularly, you’ll know I love doing drummer interviews. This one was one of the best I could ask for. Here’s a chat with Gene Hoglan while he was on tour with Strapping Young Lad in the summer of 2006.
Maelstrom: What’s up?
Gene Hoglan: Man, half the places we play are called like “Cingular Cellular One Ampitheater,” but you can’t get any cell phone reception.
Maelstrom: Let’s talk about your drums and cymbals. What set are you playing now?
Gene Hoglan: I play the Pearl SRX. I love it. It’s a giant sounding, big truck looking, metallic sounding kit. I don’t know where it lies in terms of its being top-of-the-line, but it’s killer. It’s exactly what I needed in my application in Strapping. They’re juicy sounding drums. It’s perfect.
I like the Masters series. They’re very nice sounding drums. This one sounds scary, which is what I want. If you’re looking to get a Pearl, I think this is the way to go. It’ll save you a little money, too.
Maelstrom: Have you got a wood preference?
Gene Hoglan: I know I like the way maple sounds better than birch. One of my early drumkits was a rosewood kit, but I was way too young to understand the difference between ‘em. Maple’s got that warm little resonance on the bottom half of the tone. Birch has a lot of attack and not a lot of richness to it — at least not in my opinion, anyway.
Maelstrom: You’re endorsed by Sabian. What cymbals do you use?
Gene Hoglan: On this tour, we used the HHX and AAX chinas. I’m using the Power Bell on the left and right side. I love the Power Bell. It’s a perfect ride.
Maelstrom: When you recorded The New Black, what did you use?
Gene Hoglan: I used the AAXes, because they’re a little lighter and shimmery-er. I played a lot right-handed on this album — usually I’m a left-handed ride player. But the bell sounded so good on the right side, and I would use it in a lot of the ride/bell applications. I used a Paragon ride on one song — that had more of a rock n roll tone. That was for the song “Fucker.” On the song “Anit-Product,” I used an AAX ride that was nicely crash-sounding.
Maelstrom: I can’t remember who it was, but I remember someone telling me you still used your old Camco drum pedals.
Gene Hoglan: Yeah, it’s been about 20 years or so. I’ve still got the same wood beaters on ‘em. I’ve never changed them. I do change the spring every now and then. But they rock, man. Camcos are fucking quality.
Maelstrom: That’s great! I also heard that you play heel down for all your stuff.
Gene Hoglan: Oh, no. Very little heel down, actually. There are a couple songs now where I’ve sort of absorbed into a heel down technique, but it’s mostly heel up. It’s not up very much — about two inches — but I have a very cool, relaxed style of playing. I don’t move my knee very much; it mostly comes from the ankle.
Maelstrom: Right. That’s what most of the super fast guys do.
Gene Hoglan: My foot is constantly moving around on the pedal. My foot is choking up on the pedal and then sliding back real fast. Like if I’m doing the double stroke on the right kick while doing a single stroke on the left, my foot is moving back and forth. I choke up on the sticks as well. I’m always choking up and sliding back. I don’t grip very tight. For different applications, you use different sticking. If you’ve got a song like “Anti Product,” the sticks are all over my hands on that one. “Monument,” too: The sticks are all over the place. On “Fucker,” they’re getting choked up and down quite a bit.
Maelstrom: Do you not find that you lose bounce by doing this? How does it work for you?
Gene Hoglan: It depends on the application. If I’m gonna blast beat, I’m gonna choke it up just a little bit — make the stick a little lighter, more controllable — and if I’m really gonna lay into the groove, I’ll kind of butt-end it — I’ll put it down to my two first fingers, my index and my middle finger. If I need to get some super blasty things going, I’ll slide it out and get my right finger involved in the process. It’s all comfortable; whatever’s comfy. I don’t even notice that I’m doing it half the time.
Maelstrom: Of course, it’s probably only when I ask you questions that you have to think about it. Ok, so when you’re playing your blast beats, is the nail of your thumb facing up, or do you have the back of your hands facing up?
Gene Hoglan: My thumb is facing up more than anything. That’s where I’m using a lot of my middle finger. I don’t use a lot of arms when I play — if I’m doing it, it’s probably for show. This is kind of like how I get my ankles to go so fast: I concentrate on placing my energy to the farthest point of my extremity. Then I really pinpoint my control and power, as opposed to flailing all over the place and whipping myself out. I’m in the set for the long haul, and so I’m gonna pace myself and not get too wild. I’ll get plenty wild, but when it comes to sticking, I try to keep concentrated on the extremities, and I’m able to rock it really hard that way.
Maelstrom: Gene, have you got a picture of your set-up on line somewhere that we could see it?
Gene Hoglan: Yeah, if you go to moderndrummer.com, there’s a diagram of it there. You know, one of those ghost diagrams.
Maelstrom: You don’t have any actual pictures?
Gene Hoglan: Not really, no.
Maelstrom: Where do you live, Gene?
Gene Hoglan: My home town is LA, but I pretty much live in Vancouver, Canada right now.
Maelstrom: What were you using to trigger on the last two records you recorded with SYL?
Gene Hoglan: We take our own off the acoustic kick. I use my triggers a lot for my monitoring system. I’m a slave to the blip, as it were: that note chase blip that goes on when you hit. I watch that. If you see me live and it looks like I’m staring down into space to the left, I’m watching my blip. As long as my blip is registering evenly, then I know I’m playing well. ‘Cause I can never tell by listening. I hate the way these triggers sound live. I use an Alesis DM-5, and I downtune their heavy metal kick, or their speed metal kick, or whatever...
Maelstrom: Right. There are only like four good samples on there.
Gene Hoglan: Yeah, they sound like ass. But if you downtune the “Speed Metal” kick, you kind of get a decent tone out of it. And our sound guy’s really good, so he’s able to tweak it out to make it sound pretty natural. A lot of people are like, “we really like your kick drum tone live.” And I’m like, “fuck, it’s out of the box. It’s nothing thrilling.” I down tune it as low as it will go. Maybe that’s what a lot of drummers forget to do, so they end up with that electric typewriter tone, or an electric stapler.
Maelstrom: Tell us again what you do on the records?
Gene Hoglan: We trigger up off the acoustic kit. We have four to six different kick drum tones that we use. We blend them together. We take this one for that application, that one for the other application, and so on and so forth. At the end of it, we have an amalgamation of four or five — sometimes six — kick drum tones that blend really well together. That’s what gives me my tone.
Maelstrom: So you sample your own drums, or do you have a library you draw from?
Gene Hoglan: We tend to sample from the kit itself. On the latest record, that is mostly an acoustic kick getting sampled. It’s more or less a live kick drum sound on the record.
Maelstrom: How about your other drums? Are you triggering anything else live or in the studio?
Gene Hoglan: I don’t sound replace anything — I just mic it and try to get a good drum tone.
Maelstrom: I interviewed Roy Z a little while ago (he did Halford’s solo albums, the last Judas Priest and last few Bruce Dickinson albums), and he as saying that for a lot of his records, especially with the really good drummers, he’ll have them record the cymbals after.
Gene Hoglan: Oh, that’s horrible. Why do you do that? Why?
Maelstrom: He said that for the guys that aren’t as good, he’ll put a towel over the cymbals. And he’ll overdub the cymbals after.
Gene Hoglan: I watched Dave Lombardo do that for Show No Mercy. And I was like, “man, get yourself a good cymbal tone; get yourself a good drum tone. Rock it.” Why take away the feel? That takes away every bit of feel. Especially in a blasting situation. Wow. GROSS.
Maelstrom: So you’ve never done anything like that before.
Gene Hoglan: Uh, I’ve cheated on blasts before where I’ve done single strokes on the snare and then overdub the china afterwards. I did it on “Rape Song.” You get a lot more power out of your snare that way. And I just don’t hit the chinas live, so I can re-create what it sounds like on the record. It’s like, “you can try to blast this, or just do what you did in the studio with the double snare.” And I only did that for one part. Live, it looks like I’m doing a long snare roll. Nobody notices.
Maelstrom: How did you get started in drumming originally?
Gene Hoglan: I’ve been playing my whole life. When I was a kid, I played on desks at school. When I was 11, I announced to my parents that I wanted to be a rock ‘n’ roller, to which they were kind of mortified. But they were cool, and said, “hey, ya gotta do what ya gotta do. You can do anything. You’re smart, you know.” I had the choice of being a drummer or a professional baseball player. My dad was like, “why don’t you play baseball, become a millionaire by the time you’re 30, and THEN do your rock ‘n’ roll stuff.”
I’ve looked like a freak since I was about 12 or 13: I had long hair and wore a bunch of heavy metal shit before there was heavy metal stuff. And there wasn’t any Dennis Rodmans at the time, so I figured that long hair and looking like a fucking fruitcake wasn’t going to fly in baseball, so rock ‘n’ roll drumming is what I want to do. I decided that at an early age and stuck to it. I’ve never wavered from my dream. I’ve said this a bunch of times recently in a lot of interviews: I’m very fortunate that I’ve got to live out my dream. When you’re 11, you don’t know what you wanna do. “I wanna be a veterinarian!” For me, it was like, “I wanna be a long-haired guy in a rock ‘n’ roll band! What do you think of that?”
Maelstrom: Were drums your toys when you were a kid, or did you have other stuff?
Gene Hoglan: I got my first set when I was 13, and it was a Slingerland chrome set. It was a maple kit. It was big. It had a 14" and a 15" tom, and an 18" floor, and a 26" kick. It was big and loud and boomy and rockin’; I had some Evans Hydraulic heads on there — those big, oily, blue ones, I didn’t know any better, so that’s what I did.
Maelstrom: You talked about a rosewood kit. I’ve never heard of anyone making drums out of rosewood. Was that a vintage thing?
Gene Hoglan: That was a Tama Superstar, I think. What did Stewart Copeland play? That was their excellent series. It had concert toms — no lugs on the bottom heads — I didn’t know any better, it was just a big drum set that I bought!
Maelstrom: How long did it take you to become more of a discerning connoisseur?
Gene Hoglan: That was pretty early. I was really into, as well as all the classic rock stuff, I was into all the progressive rock. Rush was a big influence. I remember I played a lot of Gino Vannelli’s Brother to Brother album, which is a great album; Mark Craney was an amazing drummer. He just rocks... and there’s double bass on it, too! The style was like heavy metal without being heavy metal: The guitars were a little heavy, it was mean... I totally jammed to a lot of songs on that record. I played along to U.K.’s live record, Night After Night — I learned how to play “Presto Vivace” when I was young. “Alaska” off that album is also great — Terry Bozzio did a great job. King Crimson: I played along with that stuff. Yes’ Tormato was an absolute influence — that had Alan White on drums, not Bill Bruford, but I was like, “fuck, I like the drums on this. I’m gonna get behind the drum kit and play it!” I had my record player next to my drums.
Half my junior high had to walk past my house to get home. I’d go home and start playing drums immediately. And junior high kids are fucking RUDE! There’s some kid hacking along, playing an AC/DC drum beat, and everyone’s like, “dude, that dude SUCKS!” So by my proximity to the sharks, I had to get good really fast. I’d be playing along to Rush, and the next day, kids would be like, “hey, Gene’s not a bad drummer! Check that guy out!”
That honed my skills early. Then I started getting into Sonny Emory, Steve Gadd (in the Al DeMeola period of his playing) was a gigantic influence. I was incorporating what I heard from him on my two rides when I played with Death’s Individual Thought Patterns. Deen Castronovo was a giant influence on the Symbolic record. I just ripped licks off of him left and right. Absolutely. I’ve never met the guy, but if I did, I’d have to shake his hand and cut him a check.
Maelstrom: I interviewed Paul Bostaph from (now) Exodus recently. He said that before he recorded his last record with Exodus, he made it a point of going to see you play, to re-confirm that you were way better than him.
Gene Hoglan: Ohh, noo... Paul’s a great drummer, man.
Maelstrom: Oh, he is, I’m not saying he’s not, but in his words, he needed to know that Gene Hoglan could kick his ass. I interview many metal drummers, and they will list various names of people they were influenced by, but they ALL say “Gene Hoglan.” Who does Gene Hoglan go to see to kick his ass?
Gene Hoglan: Stevie Wonder can outplay me on the drums. Absolutely. He’s awesome.
Maelstrom: No, come on.
Gene Hoglan: Are you talking about for metal, or for overall drumming?
Maelstrom: Well, let’s talk about both, but let’s start with “for metal.” And I mean today — the guys that you see. You’ve named your influences, so let’s not re-name guys.
Gene Hoglan: Flo from Cryptopsy’s an amazing drummer. He’s all over it. He’s got the stamina that I lack. He does a lot of the crazy hand stuff along with the double-pumping kick drums. Tony Laureano, from... everybody... he’s awesome. He’s kind of an old student of mine. We got together when he was living in Florida. Tim Yeung’s another killer drummer. But the best metal drummer on the planet is Tomas from Meshuggah. He is from Mars. I once thought Tom Hunting from Exodus was like the Keith Moon of thrash metal: He had a style all his own, not duplicable; he would throw in fills at the wackiest times, and they were always the wackiest fills — they weren’t very tight, and they were crazy, and you could never do an Exodus cover justice. Keith Moon was the same way: just a bursting drummer. “Holy fuck! What was he thinkin’ there?!” But Tomas from Meshuggah is the tightened-up android from Mars version Keith Moon. You can’t follow that guy. We did a tour for a month and a half with Meshuggah, and by the end of it, I got his right hand down! I got the china! Keepin’ time with his right hand and going nuts with everything else.
A lot of the super math metal drummers destroy me. In terms of having the energy to go nuts every song and freak out? Those guys are WAY all over me. Anyone that joins the World’s Fastest Drummer competition? They’ll beat me.
Maelstrom: But that’s not about drumming, it’s about how many hits you can rack up.
Gene Hoglan: Sure, and it’s not that impressive to me. The fast drummer, that’s cool that he can do it, but I’ve always tried to bring taste to it. All these drummers can be mad technical skilled drummers, but what I’ve got over them is I really try to bring taste. There are ghost notes in every single song on Strapping records. You just don’t hear them. I’m very busy with my snare hand during everything. Many drummers have come up and said, “wow, I never knew you were doing all that shit in the middle of the song.” That’s because we’ve got so much gloop in the production that those ghost notes are gone. But they’re not designed to be heard, anyway.
Maelstrom: I haven’t really gotten my mind around that. If you can’t hear it, then what’s the point of doing it?
Gene Hoglan: It’s strictly feel. You might only be able to hear the attack of the snare on one part, but I’m building an entire part around that. I’m the only person that hears that, I’m the only person that notices that, it’s strictly for me. That’s why a lot of people think my drumming’s a lesson, and it is, because you just don’t hear it.
Maelstrom: Now, on Tomas Haake’s last record... he’s not even on the record.
Gene Hoglan: I know!
Maelstrom: What’s that all about?
Gene Hoglan: I don’t know! I haven’t listened to it yet. He told me, handed the record over, and said he didn’t play on it, he just programmed the drums. And I go, “oh.” Flat out, “oh.” If you can play ‘em, play ‘em.
Maelstrom: I know. I don’t understand what he was thinking when he did that. Another guy on my staff interviewed him, and Tomas said something like, “I figured I’d just learn how to play the parts after.”
Gene Hoglan: I think that’s what Raymond from Fear Factory does, too. He programs all the drum beats and learns ‘em later. I can totally see that. I’ve done that on a couple applications back in the day. I’ve had to do that so many times, where a guitarist has given me the finished product.
Guitarists are so adorable. They don’t understand that drummers don’t really have four arms or three legs. “I know it sounds like it sometimes, but that thing you just programmed is humanly impossible to play. But I’ll tell you what. I’ll learn it, and play it as humanly possible and make it sound like a machine.” And sometimes that happens. That there is where I get my ya-yas out. That’s part of my challenge. It sounds like a drum machine, but, no! It’s me! For Alien, we filmed the fuck out of the drum parts just to show that, yes, it’s me.
Maelstrom: We can see these online?
Gene Hoglan: Yeah, it was on the Century Media site for the longest time. We had a little making of Alien that we released in Europe as a 3" DVD, with me talking about the drums and me explaining that, yes, it’s me. I want people to know that. It’s not a drum machine... yes, there’s a little bit of Pro Tooling — not much! — man, I try to nail the take as tightly as I can, and if that’s not tight enough for ya, then fuck, ok, do your magic to it. Live, come check it out. That ain’t no drum machine takin’ over.
So when Tomas gave me the record I was like, “damn. Ooh. Shit. It makes me not want to listen to it, because that’s not you playing on it. I know you can play it. I know you’re gonna play these songs live and you’re gonna play ‘em just like the thing... but it’s a drum machine. Shit, ok, I’ll just catch your songs live.”
Maelstrom: And you still haven’t listened to it. There’s the testament, because that record came out more than a year ago.
Gene Hoglan: That’s very true. I still haven’t checked it out. I’ve watched them play live and be amazing, but I still haven’t listened to the album. I try to be quick in the studio. I understand that when you program it, it’s perfect; it’s all the playing and Pro Tooling in one. I understand how it’s going to cut costs; it’s going to make the project cruise along easier because you don’t have to take a month to edit the drums and pay some guy six grand to do it...
Maelstrom: But they’re Meshuggah.
Gene Hoglan: Yeah, exactly! You’re fucking Meshuggah, goddammit! You swing the biggest dick! Swing your dick! I want to see you swing your dick, you fucker!
Maelstrom: Ok, so talk about non-metal drummers that kick your ass.
Gene Hoglan: Any progressive drummer. Stevie Wonder is my favorite drummer in the world. Sonny Emory can do things I can’t even think of. That’s why I’ve always gravitated towards drummers that are “gettable” like Neil Peart. Their fills aren’t crazy, their beats are... Neil Peart can lay down some technical stuff, but all you have to do is listen to it, and it all falls into place. Even Tomas from Meshuggah falls into place... if you understand the concept of pi, then Tomas from Meshuggah will fall into place. All of the jazz/fusion guys. Akira Jimbo! He’s the best drummer in the world. Holy fuck! I can’t conceive what he’s doing. I can’t get it. And I’m really good at picking up a drummer’s licks. I hear what’s going on really easily. But Akira Jimbo? Jesus! That Pulse he put out 10 years ago? You think you’re an ass-kicker? Put that on! Fuck you!
Maelstrom: I think that’s all he does in his entire life.
Gene Hoglan: Yeah, and he wears some pretty spiffy shoes while doing it.
Maelstrom: Ok, but my next question is, have you got any of Akira Jimbo’s records, and do you enjoy them?
Gene Hoglan: No, I’ve only got the Pulse one. That’s all I need. I was like, this guy rules! All the other drummers, put down your sticks. I’ve been trying to get Tomas to watch it. We were gonna on tour, but we never got around to it. And when you’re Tomas Haake, who’s gonna drop your jaw? Akira jimbo will. I was telling Tomas that he’d be all, “gawd daaaamn.” Like he’s from Texas. That’s what Tomas sounds like. I ask him, “where did you learn to speak English? From watching John Wayne movies? Were you a country western fan when you were growing up?”
Maelstrom: Ha! That’s my issue: A lot of these huge, huge drummers that are always in the drum mags, like Virgil Donati and Terry Bozzio... I’ll listen to their records and I’ll think, “oh. Well, it’s really amazingly technical, but I can’t get into this music. Are you that way, too?
Gene Hoglan: A lot of times. I’ll be like, “wow, that guy’s swinging a big dick, but I don’t get it.” A lot of times with Meshuggah, I’m that way. I mean, it’s so amazing and so over-the-top that it’s like, “wow, I like songs. I like it when the drummer is playing a song.” That’s why I like Stevie Wonder so much. He’s another guy from Mars. He’ll put the craziest fill in the middle of his tune that no other drummer would think to put that there. He’s Keith Moon-esque.
Maelstrom: I didn’t even know he was a drummer. Isn’t that stupid?
Gene Hoglan: Oh, he’s an amazing drummer. He’s played on a lot of songs that you’ve heard. “Superstition”: that’s him. “Livin’ for the City”? That’s him. All the Innervisions records, that’s him on drums. Fulfillingness’ First Finale and Talking Book? That’s him on drums. The song “I Wish”...
Wow! I just realized I blew by my 5:30 interview. I’ve been babbling. Roberto, this has been my favorite interview of the day. This has been awesome, man!
Maelstrom: Well, I’ll talk to you some other time.
Gene Hoglan: Cool, take care, brother.
From left to right: Byron Stroud, Jed Simon, Devin Townsend, Gene Hoglan. |