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interview by: Roberto Martinelli
Hot off the heels of Emperor wrapping up their re-union shows (which sold out two years in a row — in the United States, anyway), drummer Trym Torson (also of Zyklon) sat down to talk to us about his drums and how he gets the Trym sound.
Maelstrom: The Emperor re-union is done?
Trym Torson: We might do a final show in Norway, but after that, there are no plans.
Maelstrom: How did you feel about doing the shows you did?
Trym Torson: I thought it was really cool! It brought back a lot of old memories from that time when we made that kind of music, and to see that the music is still highly valued today.
Maelstrom: It was amazing to see how much they charged people, even in my country, to see you guys.
Trym Torson: Yes. It was ridiculous. It wasn’t even the promoter — I believe it was the clubs that charged that much. I think we agreed to a way lower price that they charged, but they brought the price way up afterwards.
Maelstrom: Did this lead to Emperor being paid more?
Trym Torson: No! We had a set payment for the shows from the beginning.
Maelstrom: While we’re on the subject of Emperor playing live, on the Emperial Live Ceremony recording, at the end of the opening track, “Curse You All Men,” “Decrystallizing Reason” begins to play, but that track doesn't appear in the album. That's one of Emperor's strongest songs. Why didn't it make the album?
Trym Torson: The reason why that song was cut away from the live DVD is that one of the guitars is missing in long parts of the song due to mic problems that were solved after the end of the song. But it did not sound good during the song, and we just had to cut it away.
Maelstrom: Again about the Live DVD — there's at least one part where the video doesn't match your playing. There's a huge fill that you don't physically play on the video. What's that about?
Trym Torson: Me and Samoth went over to the studio in London to take part in the last step of the video, and there was a problem with one of the cams that lost the sync, and I had to make sure the picture matched the music. But after we had fixed everything, the producer must have forgot to save the changes, and therefore the drums don’t match the music towards the end of the video :-(
Maelstrom: Let’s talk about your drums now. Is your set-up the same for both Zyklon and Emperor?
Trym Torson: It is.
Maelstrom: I see you’re endorsed by Trick drums, but I don’t know if you have an entire Trick kit.
Trym Torson: No. I am also endorsed by Premier. I just got my new Premier kit with rosewood custom finish. They have a standard finish called Rosewood Lacquer, which I took a picture of, and then altered in Photoshop. I sent Premier that photo, and asked for it a bit darker, and they did what I asked them.
Maelstrom: Cool. Are your drums made out of rosewood?
Trym Torson: No. I have the Premier Maple Classic drums. I liked the drums Nicko McBrain has, so I wanted the same series as his, although my sizes are totally different.
I use 20" kicks. I prefer those, as they’re way easier to work with. With 22", you have a lot of volume that needs to be controlled. The 20"s are easier to control, especially if you don’t use triggers. Of course, I trigger my kicks, so that’s not a problem, but I like the attack on a 20" more because the response is better. 20"s also makes it easier to place the toms in a good position. With 24"s or even 22"s, the toms will have to be higher up.
My new toms are power toms, and they’re shorter than I’m used to. The attack on them is really good, but you still have the power of a bigger tom. When I first signed with Premier, I asked for the biggest toms they had, because I wanted it to sound... big. The guy I talked to was Norwegian and had several Premier kits. He tried the 12" tom in both the deep one, and the shorter, power tom, and the shorter one sounded way better! If the shell is too deep, the sound reflects back upon itself, and sound against sound reduces the volume. I’m really glad I ordered the power toms. I didn’t even change the heads that came with them.
Maelstrom: How deep are your kick drums, and how do you find the depth affects the sound you get?
Trym Torson: They’re 18" deep. I’ve never had any other depths. I guess 20"x20" could do the same job, but you might have the bigger volume to be controlled again. But again, I use triggers, so it’s no problem. I just make sure the heads are tight. I like to have as much acoustic sound in my drums as possible, even though I use triggers. If I have the trigger sound in my monitors, it’s not the same.
I need to hear my kicks. The first show we did on the Emperor reunion, in New York, there was no sound on stage whatsoever. All the channels were muted. When we started playing, I couldn’t hear myself, I couldn’t hear the other guys... I wasn’t even sure if the PA system was on. For a second, I wondered if I should continue or stop playing. But we continued, and after a while, some guitar came, and then the kicks... it was a nightmare.
I’ve got 8" x 7", 10" x 8", 12" x 9", 14" x 11" toms on top, and 16" x 16" and 18" x 16" floors. Those are much shorter than I used to have. I used to have 14" x 14" and 12" x 12".
Maelstrom: For rack toms?
Trym Torson: Yeah! It was the same case as with the old Tama kit I had. I put my snare really low. I like the angle of my knee to be 90 degrees, more or less. The snare is actually a bit lower than the tops of my knees. If the snare is higher up, I have to lift my arm, which means I’d end up lifting my shoulder as well. I’ve seen people play like that for years, and it often results in tendinitis. Frost from Satyricon’s left shoulder is all fucked up because he sits with his shoulder raised up. I try to keep my shoulders down. My left arm basically rests on my left thigh.
Maelstrom: What was your old Tama kit?
Trym Torson: It was an Artstar. I had that kit for ages. I liked how it sounded and I liked the sizes, but then I got tired of them.
Maelstrom: Going back to Nicko McBrain’s kit (below... two toms are not visible in this photo), it’s insane! He’s got like, ten toms, and every single one of them, except the 18" floor tom, is as deep as it is wide. And he uses a 24" kick. You look at his toms, and it's like they’re nearly parallel to the ground in terms of their positioning.
Trym Torson: Yes. Everything is really high. It’s definitely not a set up for playing fast music. It’s fine if you’re playing regular heavy metal and have time to think between every beat.
Maelstrom: What albums is your Artstar kit on?
Trym Torson: Everything from [Emperor's] IX Equilibrium to [Zyklon's] Disintegrate. Basically everything with Emperor and Zyklon.
Maelstrom: Wait... what about [Emperor's] Anthems to the Welkin at Dusk?
Trym Torson: Oh, right. Ummm... I can’t remember. Well, I know it was a black kit, so it couldn’t have been mine. I think I borrowed a kit.
Maelstrom: How about on Frost and Viklingr Veldi, when you were with Enslaved?
Trym Torson: That wasn’t my kit, either. That was the old drummer for Immortal’s... not the first guy, the second guy.
Maelstrom: The guy that passed away?
Trym Torson: No, before him, but after the guy that is on the first album. I don’t think he recorded anything with Immortal. He also played with Old Funeral. I don’t know what his stage name was, but his real name was Padden. He had a natural finish Pearl set of some kind.
Maelstrom: Were those Enslaved records done at Grieghallen?
Trym Torson: Yeah.
Maelstrom: I had heard that all the classic, cult Grieghallen albums featured the same drum kit. Is that true?
Trym Torson: I’m not sure. I know we used the same kit both times as we couldn’t bring our own because we had to travel there. That guy was really cool and let us borrow his. I just brought my cymbals and pedals. I haven’t recorded with the new Premier kit. I got it a couple months ago and am looking forward to going into the studio with it.
I also have a 6" Roto-Tom.
Maelstrom: You must have a rack system for all this.
Trym Torson: I have a Gibraltar rack. And it’s not usually the toms that are the problem, it’s getting all the cymbal stands up. We had a situation like that with the first three shows with Emperor last year. They didn’t bring a rack, and it was a nightmare getting all the cymbal stands set up. We didn’t even use clamps. I think we had like 22 boom stands around the kit.
Maelstrom: You couldn’t have brought your own drums from Norway.
Trym Torson: I usually don’t bring my own kit, unless it’s here in Norway... and even if we go up north, we hire a kit. Premier generally has a kit for me where ever I go.
My snare is a Trick snare. I just got it. I’m still in the process of getting my own finish on the drum. At first I wanted something called Ghost Flames, which are flames in the same color as the background. I wanted a black snare with black flames. Trick sent me a 14" x 6" with a print of real flames on it. That snare sounds like nothing else I ever heard. Maybe it’s because it’s a metal snare... there are holes just beneath the rim that are shaped like slots, and I think that must make the sound louder. It has a lot of attack, power and depth... all what I need. It sounds great live. I don’t need it in the monitor because I can always hear it.
I’d always used piccolo snares, mainly because it was hard to get the snare as low as I wanted, especially for live situations where they don’t have 20" kicks (I have to bring the kicks so far away from each other to fit the snare in between). I have a really, really low snare stand that I bring with me everywhere. I don’t know if Tama or Gibraltar makes it. I also bring the snare where ever I play live.
Maelstrom: Are you done with piccolo snares now?
Trym Torson: I really like the attack on them, but the Trick snare is giving me everything I want.
Maelstrom: What other Trick products do you use?
Trym Torson: I also use the Pro 1-V pedals. They are also like nothing I’ve used before. It’s a whole new technology. They are so tight and strong. They can take whatever weight you put on them. It’s the best pedal I’ve ever played on.
Maelstrom: What were you using before that?
Trym Torson: Gibraltar Intruders. I had an endorsement with them. They are also very good pedals. I like to have a lot of resistance when I play. I’ve tried a lot of other pedals, like the Axis. My problem with those is they’re so light. You fart on them, and they play. For me, it’s like instead of putting energy into the pedal, it was like trying to hold energy back. Instead of playing every beat, you’d just regulate them — it was more like hitting the pedal once, and it went by itself. That’s not the kind of technique I prefer.
There are a lot of drummers coming up today that play fast like nothing else. But they don’t hit the drums. They just tap them. There is almost no sound coming out of the drum itself. And to my knowledge, the harder you hit a drum, the better it sounds. With the new drummers today, it’s all about BPMs (beats per minute). It’s like they almost don’t care about the music anymore. People ask me, “how many BPMs can you play?” I don’t know. I don’t fucking care. None of my top five drummers are fast drummers.
Maelstrom: Give us your top five while you’re on the subject.
Trym Torson: You know that Japanese guy called Akira Jimbo? Him and Terry Bozzio. Metal drummers like Dave Lombardo... if I mention a drummer that plays fast, I’d say Gene Hoglan. He’s got everything. He’s got the technique, the groove...
Maelstrom: Do you know who Gene Hoglan’s favorite drummer is?
Trym Torson: No.
Maelstrom: Stevie Wonder.
Trym Torson: Stevie Wonder?!?!
Maelstrom: Yes.
Trym Torson: Does he even play drums?
Maelstrom: Yes. That’s what everybody says! He’s a drummer, and apparently, he’s amazing, and he’s Gene Hoglan’s favorite drummer.
Trym Torson: For me, there are so many great drummers that don’t play metal.
Maelstrom: Of course! It doesn’t have to be metal to be good.
Trym Torson: No, not at all.
Maelstrom: You talked about getting good acoustic sound out of your drums. Please tell us the details, but it’s been my perception that since IX Equilibrium, you’ve found a sort of Trym trademark triggered sound. I’m especially thinking about the toms, how they rumble and pan in the stereo field. Is that all trigger?
Trym Torson: No. It’s all acoustic.
Maelstrom: Come on!
Trym Torson: I don’t trigger the toms. I trigger the kicks, and live, I also trigger the snare, but it’s only about 10-15% of the trigger sound that we use. We use one mic on top and one on the bottom live... and especially with the Trick snare, I get way more power off the mic than with the trigger.
Here’s what I did with the toms. I have this tuning instrument that you just put on the rim, and it tells you the tension of the head. The manual that comes with it gives you rough guidelines about the range of how a tom should be tuned if you want a certain sound. I did all the tunings to make the toms fairly high, so you can get the attack off of them. Then I tuned the bottom heads a pitch tone down, so I get the low frequency. They’re in the same tone, but one pitch down. I had to take a lot of time to do this. It can be a nightmare to get the lower heads right — it’s so easy for them to get out of tune.
All the toms are two tracks. We split every signal (tom) into two. We took one signal and mixed it so you could hear all the hits that I was playing. It didn’t have any low end; just the attack. Then, we took the other signal and tried to make it sound as good as possible. We then put the first track on top of the second. This way, you can have all the power and all the attack in the toms.
Maelstrom: So you copy and pasted each tom track?
Trym Torson: No. When we recorded, we split the signal to two channels, so it record two tracks at once.
Maelstrom: Just one mic?
Trym Torson: Yeah. We tried to do the same for the last Zyklon album, Disintegrate, when we went to Sweden. We wanted to mute all the sound, so we could make it like a MIDI track, and then put digital drums on top of that, but it didn’t work, so we just used the acoustic sound.
Maelstrom: What do you mean, you wanted to mute all the sound?
Trym Torson: We did the same as before: we split the signal. We took one signal and put so much gate on it that it turned into a click. The other track we left alone. The guy in Sweden wanted to take all the gated tracks into Pro Tools and use Sound Replacer. The thing with triggers is you need to make the heads so tight so it won’t double trigger. But really tight heads sound stupid. It sounds like a marching band, and you basically can’t use the acoustic sound. I’ve heard bands that only used triggers live, and I’ve never heard it sound good. It’s a fine line between sounding powerful and getting all the attack... and sounding like a drum machine.
Maelstrom: That’s been your sound for five records now. You must be happy with it.
Trym Torson: The thing is, it never comes out the way I want it. But it’s the best we can get out of the recording. You cannot have all [what you want], I guess. You have to compromise. It cannot sound like a machine gun and sound like an old Led Zeppelin record at the same time. It also has to sound good with the rest of the music.
For IX Equilibrium I had an amazing tom sound in the beginning, but there was so much low end that it drowned out the guitar. So we had to cut a lot of the tone in the toms.
Maelstrom: When you trigger your kicks on records, do you also have acoustic sound mixed in?
Trym Torson: I used to have both, but now I only use the trigger sound. But I do the same there: from each kick, I have one cable that splits into two. I use the Roland TD-12 module for that. One sample will be thick and powerful, and one that is a lot of attack and click. If you put a lot of EQ on a kick drum track to make it sound clicky, it ends up sounding strange.
Maelstrom: Do you also use the Roland triggers?
Trym Torson: Yes. I use the new, black ones. The combination with the Roland module is really good. I tried the previous, metallic trigger Roland made. I didn’t like them. They were big, and especially the snare trigger was fucking horrible. The way you connected it to the rim, it made it trigger the rim all the time!
Maelstrom: Yeah! I thought the same.
Trym Torson: The rim trigger was fucking going nuts. I had it for one day and brought it back to the store and told them it was a piece of shit. The guy told me, “hey, we’ve got the new black one. You want to try this?” And it was like heaven and hell.
Maelstrom: Why didn’t he tell you before?
Trym Torson: They got the black one the day after I bought the silver one. And the black one was cheaper and ten times better.
Maelstrom: The old silver tom triggers they had were even worse. They wouldn’t trigger off the head — only off the rim.
Trym Torson: Right. It was the metal touching the metal. Doesn’t work for me, that’s for sure.
Maelstrom: Let’s talk about your cymbals. What do you like and what do you use? Are you endorsed?
Trym Torson: I have a Sabian endorsement. I’ve always used Sabians. I think they have a natural sound. I’m not too fond of the orchestral-sounding cymbals or crashes that are thick. I also liked the Zildjians. I have a couple of those before my endorsement. They also have the natural tones.
I like to use different cymbals. Instead of two big crashes, I like to have four small ones.
Maelstrom: I remember seeing that and watching your playing on the Emperial Live Ceremony DVD. You look exactly where you’re hitting all the time. You’re like a machine gun turret.
Trym Torson: Wow! Usually, I don’t. If the set-up isn’t what I’m used to, I have to watch very closely what I’m doing.
Maelstrom: Oh, no! I thought it was your technique, man!
Trym Torson: Oh, no. I have to watch what I’m doing [on unfamiliar kits], or else I’m going to punch a lot of holes in the air.
Maelstrom: I also noticed you have a small cymbal over each tom, so you can hit a cymbal as the first note of every tom on a fill.
Trym Torson: Right. There is one crash cymbal above each rack tom. And in-between the toms, I have splashes. Like Terry Bozzio, I have more or less the same on my left side as I do on my right side.
Maelstrom: I’ve started to like having a ride on my left as well. It allows me to do double ride patterns, blast beats with my right hand...
Trym Torson: Exactly. For crashes, I have 13", 14", 15" and 16". The two smallest are AAX Studio crashes. The 16" is an El Sabor. It’s really good. It sounds like a larger cymbal, but it still has the attack. I hate it when a cymbal doesn’t deliver the tone until like a second after you hit it. That doesn’t work for fast music. The 15" is an HHX Evolution. The overtones are really, really good.
Maelstrom: Are these smaller, thinner cymbals loud enough when you play live?
Trym Torson: They are. On my left side, I have a 16" O-Zone; and on my right I have an 18" O-Zone. Those are really cool — they sound like a mixture between a crash and a china. I like that they are a go-between from my crashes to my chinas, which I have a 15" AAXtreme on my left, and an 18" on my right. For hi-hats, I have a 13" AAX Fusion as my main hats. I have the 14" Xcelerator hats, which have the waved bottoms. More often I use 14" HH hats as my aux hats, but now I’m using the 14" Dave Weckl Evolution hats as my aux. It’s on a clamp and kept slightly open. I use it more like an effects cymbal. I’ve seen drummers play their second hi-hat a lot — especially when they want to play fast — but I’m more of an old-school player.
But for my main hats, I use the bottom cymbal on top. I find it to be more crispy, somehow: you get more attack and it sounds thicker.
On my right side, I use a 20" AAX Heavy Ride. I also have a really old 20" Sabian B8 Pro ride that’s been on every recording I’ve ever done. It was the first stand-alone cymbal I ever bought. I’ve had that ride probably since ‘89. When I went to the music store, I wanted a Sabian cymbal, and that B8 Pro was the only Sabian they had. It sounded pretty good, so I said, “yeah, I’ll have it!” The thing is, the older it gets — with all kinds of shit on it (and I didn’t care too much about cleaning it) — it got better and better sounding. My old drum tech bought the exact same ride, but it didn’t sound anything like mine does. That’s on my left (I used to have it as my main ride)... although I’m probably going to change one of the rides soon. I need to go to a store and try out all the rides.
I used to play with a nylon tip on my sticks. But I got an endorsement from B-Stick, from Denmark, but they don’t make nylon tips. The sound is a bit different from what I’m used to, so I want to find a ride that sounds good with a wooden tip.
Maelstrom: What are your splashes?
Trym Torson: Two 10"s — an AAX and an HHX — and one Dave Weckl Evolution 12". I also have a Rocktagon on my right side. Those are really good sounding. They’re really loud... it’s a little like the O-Zones, but more oriental sounding — more trashy.
Maelstrom: You have a drum tech, right?
Trym Torson: Yeah.
Maelstrom: Good. (Laugh).
Trym Torson: On top of my ride, I have a Mike Portnoy Max Stax — I think it’s a 14" and a 9". I also have a 12" AAX splash there, too.
Maelstrom: Hahah! Engineers hate us metal drummers.
Trym Torson: Yeah, I know. I’ve learned how to play with the cymbals higher up. I used to play with them really low. But I needed to make more room for microphones. I think we use 22 or 24 tracks when we record. Just for the cymbals, it’s seven or eight tracks. Seven mics for the toms, two tracks for each kick, three tracks for the snare, one for the hi-hat, one for the right hi-hat, one for the ride, one for the left side, one for the right side, and then one for all the crashes.
Maelstrom: What do you use for drumheads?
Trym Torson: I use the Remo Ambassador Emperor coated heads.
Maelstrom: One ply. That’s unusual for metal.
Trym Torson: Yeah, but they sound really good. I had always played with clear heads. During the recording of the first Zyklon album (maybe it was the second... or maybe it was the last Emperor album), I was playing the floor toms and hitting them way too hard, and they got a dent in the head, so I had to change it. But the store was closed. The engineer said that the drummer who recorded before me left his old heads around the studio. We found a coated 16", which I put on. All of a sudden, my drum sounded way better. For a while I was playing with clears on racks and coated on floors, but then I switched to coated for all the toms. The coateds tend to kill the overtones that you get with the clears.
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