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interview by: Roberto Martinelli
Don Caballero drummer Damon Che is probably the foremost monster player in the indie rock world. Aside from his ridiculous chops and a setup so awkward and low-end that only he can get the right sound out of it, Che (and engineer Al Sutton, owner of Detroit’s Rustbelt Studio) approach recording the drum set beyond the standard philosophy of getting tom and cymbal tones via hitting them with sticks and pedals. They go further, seeing the instruments’ potential to yield sounds beyond their widely accepted uses, like miking up the spring to Che’s drum pedal. We contacted the pair of artists to discuss these unusual recording techniques for Don Caballero’s latest album, Punkgasm.
DAMON CHE:
Maelstrom: What was your drum set up on your recent album?
Damon Che: I’ve gone down to a 12" and 13" rack toms. In the past it was 13" and 14". It got that way from using so many rental drum kits in foreign countries came with those sizes. I also switched to Ambassador heads on the toms, instead of Emperors. It’s made the toms come out at you much more. Of course, Al had a lot to do with it as well.
I have a 16" floor that I kept an Emperor on.
Maelstrom: Why?
Damon Che: Probably because I know I hit that one pretty damn hard, and didn’t want to commit drum head suicide with a thinner head (Ambassador).
My snare drum is a 13" Ludwig Power Piccolo with an Emperor Coated head. I’ve used that drum on every record except the first one.
My bass drum is a 22" Pearl Export. My toms are Exports, too.
Maelstrom: What do you think of the sound of the Pearl Export? From what I’ve heard of your drums, they aren’t big and full of body. Rather, they sound nasty and full of attack.
Damon Che: I bought the kit in 1985. Pearl was trying to make a kit that any kid could afford. There was something about the particle board shells that really projected on the ‘80s Pearl Export kits. The current bass drum actually is a ply shell, as the original particle board bass drum got destroyed in a show. The only record with the old bass drum is For Respect.
Maelstrom: What do you like about this old, bottom-of-the-line kit?
Damon Che: I haven’t played a rental kit yet that can match it. None of them are as loud and can penetrate like my Pearl Export. In shitty clubs with shitty PAs, that’s what you need, man. They can turn you up as loud as the mind can accept, but they still might be able to get the right drum sound.
Maelstrom: This kit is like your baby.
Damon Che: I dunno if it’s like my baby. It’s like your nose and your ears and the things that make up your face: they’re yours. Does that make them like your baby? It’s you.
Maelstrom: What pedal do you use?
Damon Che: A Tama Iron Cobra double.
Maelstrom: When you went in to record Punkgasm, what ideas did you have about the drum sound, and what did you tell Al?
Damon Che: Al just keeps getting better and better. I went in wanting a slightly tighter, dryer sound than what we’ve come to be known for. With Al, you throw up the mics and see what you get. It goes pretty fast.
Maelstrom: How do you feel the result has changed over the course of your discography, both positively and negatively?
Damon Che: I remember on Don Cab 2, I wanted the roto-tom to be more mid-rangy and punchy. For the new record, it was a question of making sure everything was there and I got a perfect take.
Maelstrom: Do you record with a metronome?
Damon Che: We have a guitar player that plays drums, and he loves to record to a metronome. I don’t do it. I can — sometimes we’ve played to loops. The first three or four minutes of the first song on Punkgasm are played that way. There’s a guitar loop, and I have to stay on it.
Maelstrom: You can tell us about your cymbals.
Damon Che: I’d love a Sabian endorsement. All my cymbals are rides, except the hi-hat, of course. And the hi-hats are both bottoms on the latest record. It’s got the original bottom I’ve been playing all my life, and a new, heaviest bottom (on top) that Sabian currently makes. It pounds utter weaklings out of the arena when heard. It’s brutal. I like the Sabian B8 Pro ride in the same way: the ding bell is the most penetrating. It’s like your in a boxing ring when you hear it. My other cymbals are a Sabian Signature Universal ride, and an HHX Evolution.
I use all ride cymbals for durability; so I won’t have to spend a bunch of money on thin ride cymbals that will be gone in no time at all.
AL SUTTON:
Maelstrom: Damon Che likes his bottom-of-the-line kit. What do you think about the sound?
Al Sutton: This is the fourth Don Caballero album I’ve done. Anybody else can go sit behind his drum kit and bang on it, and you cannot get the same sound he gets out of it. He’s definitely an enigma in his ability to play and get tone out of the drums.
Maelstrom: What are you recording with at Rustbelt Studio?
Al Sutton: I have a Neve 53 series console with the 3311 4 EQs. It’s a 40-input Neve. It used to belong to Mitch Easter (R.E.M. engineer). It’s a very nice desk — much better than the Neve 10 series console. Those are really expensive and not so great for mixing, but good for tracking. I wanted something that gave me fat tracking tones, but that I could still mix to.
Maelstrom: How can you differentiate between the two and what makes a difference for you?
Al Sutton: The 10 Series has some of the widest curves. The high-end is just, wide, wide, wide. The low-end is wide. The 53 Series is a little narrower. People that use APIs do so because they’re more focused sounding. I like that better for mixing. The 10 Series tones are fat and fluffy, but when you go back to mix with them, it’s like too much of a good thing. I’d love to track Neve and mix SSL, but I have a small studio so I need something that can do both.
Maelstrom: Are you using any digital interface?
Al Sutton: I have a Pro Tools HD 3XL rig. I have a Fairchild 670 and B76. I have 1176s and wacky old BBC type compressor stuff. I use dbx compressors and Cal Rec EQs.
With Don Caballero, I used a little of everything I have. With them, there’s not a lot of control. They’re such a visionary band. They know what they want and spend a lot of time getting it before they come in. They’re one of the last bands I work with that comes in and records all their record live in one room. They play it, and in two or three takes, one or two minimal overdubs, and you have a song. The guitar tones are already picked for you. Damon’s drum tones are what they are. There isn’t much control over the snare tone. With this band, you just kinda have to steer a ship that’s going in its own direction, and keep it off the rocks.
Damon’s open to any suggestions, but he’s done so much of the work in terms of tone selection and playing style. He has an odd playing style as well. He uses marching sticks — those giant things the size of broom sticks — and holds them backwards, by the cone, so he can hit with the fat end. His snare drum is on an angle I’d never seen before. I can’t play a beat on his drum kit. His kick pedal spring is so tight that the first time I went to push it down, it didn’t even hit the kick drum.
Some guys will change snare heads over the course fo a record. Damon will use one head. Even though it’s probably shot after a day or two of recording, the way he hits the snare drum, it doesn’t matter.
Maelstrom: Please talk about how you mic his drum set.
Al Sutton: There can be a lot to mic with Damon. This time around, there was only three toms and one roto-tom, but there have been as many as five roto-toms. He’s got two crashes and a ride, and always two snare drums.
I mic top and bottom on the snares. I use an SM7 on the top and an old, original 414 (with the CK capsule on it) on the bottom. I use a D112 on the kick drum. On the smaller rack toms, I’ve been using Shure KSM141s. There was a 421 on the floor tom, and a Beyer M88 on the roto-tom.
I really like miking drums in the old school, Bonham style, but with Damon, he wants so much of the detail in his playing that I have to use close mics for everything. Like on the new record, there’s a section of him tapping his fingers on the snare drum while holding his other hand on it. He wants all that to come through.
I also had to mic the spring on the kick pedal for one section that features the squeak on it.
A bit of a legendary story around Detroit concerns the first record I made with Damon, around ‘97 or ‘98. He had a working table saw with his drum set. It was an old saw with no shield on it. He would hit the blade and turn the power on, and it would pitch bend the blade. I had to mic this, which was hilarious: You’d look at this drum kit with the five roto-toms and three regular toms... and a table saw.
I put a mic on each of his cymbals, and a mic underneath the ride... right in the bell. In my experience, you don’t really need to mic a ride cymbal if it’s played well, but nine times out of ten, when you’re doing the mix and you’re not getting enough of something? It’s the bell. You get plenty of the wash from the overheads. So I put a mic up underneath the bell to get that ping that you can blend in after if you need more. I’ll only use it in those situations. Otherwise, I’ll have it muted. It’s really easy to do in Pro Tools. In the older days I’d print the track in with the overheads, back when I would shoot for eight tracks. On Punkgasm, we had 15. Kick, top and bottom snare, one for the extra snare, two crashes, ride, hi-hat, four toms, and three room mics.
Maelstrom: How far away from the cymbals were the mics, and what did you use?
Al Sutton: I started with Shep 221s on the crashes, but they sounded too open, so I switched to Beyer 260 ribbon mics. Those are the overheads — the cymbal mics. There were no actual “overheads” on this session. The hi-hat and ride were miked with KM 84s. For the room mics, I used Neumann UM57s. I had an RFT 7151 in front of the kick for the low end.
Maelstrom: So the Neumanns were stereo pairs and the RFT was in mono?
Al Sutton: Right. The stereo room mics have a nicer washy sound, but you don’t really get that air from the kick drum. If you put the mono mic about eight feet out from the kick drum, or wherever that sweet spot is, it gives you a low end room sound. I don’t have a particularly big room (24'x17'x11.5'), so I don’t get a lot of standing waves in the low end, so I capture the standing waves by placing that mono mic.
Maelstrom: I can’t imagine you doing a whole lot of work on the drums after the tracking. Don Cab’s drums always sound dirty and raw.
Al Sutton: That’s the way he liked them. You can’t get it too slick sounding. He doesn’t like any click on his kick drum, so you can’t add any high end. He never has any muffling inside his kick, so it’s wide open and ringy. He’s not too particular on the overall tone of his drums in the sense of EQ — he just wants to make sure his parts are there, but otherwise he’s a hands-off guy in terms of his not getting in the engineer’s business. When I first recorded with him, he came in with all sorts of references and specifics about kick punch and panning and tom sound, but over the years, he doesn’t give me input on anything — we just know what we’ve got going on. We’ve got a cool trust thing going.
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