interview by: Bastiaan de Vries
Gnostic's Engineering the Rule has been a long time coming. Fans of complex, futuristic metal could already taste some of it way back on the 2005 demo, Splinters of Change, and again a year later on the second demo, Isolate Gravity. It's now 2009, and we're curious how the band has progressed in that period. We ask drummer Steve Flynn about how the band got started, the recording process for Engineering the Rule, and how well Gnostic's sound translates to a live setting.
Maelstrom: You guys came together at a musicians exchange. How do I picture this going down?
Steve Flynn: Ha, yeah, it was an interesting, lucky, and fortuitous happening. In January of 2005, I woke up one morning and just new it was time to start playing again after a 14 year layoff. I hadn't played since Atheist's last tour in 1992. So, I asked at a local music store if there was a place to post messages to meet other musicians. They gave me a website. I posted my name and said I had been in and founded a technical death metal band called Atheist, had a lot of experience, and wanted to start playing again. Well, it just so happens that the two guys who answered my posting (Gnostic’s founding bass player, Stephen Morley, and guitar player, Sonny Carson) were big Atheist fans from back in the day. They didn't think it was actually me or that I'd just be sitting around waiting to jam with a bunch of random people. But, we met, started to jam, and the rest is history. It's amazing how things work out.
Maelstrom: I've heard people say some of the demo songs are better. Starting from the demos, how do you feel the band has improved on them on Engineering The Rule? How has the progress been creating a full length record? How was it working with Kelly Shaefer on the record?
Steve Flynn: That's interesting because the demo songs are basically identical to their full-length album counterparts. The production is a bit different, obviously, so perhaps that's what "people" are referring to. The songs are, as are all songs I'm involved with writing, living/breathing entities. They continue to grow and change and improve over time. I think that since the demos, the songs on Engineering the Rule have been improved in many ways. The guitars added lots of layers and things that hadn't yet been developed when the demos were recorded. I've continued to work on and refine the drum parts for all the songs – arrangements, fills, rhythms, pace, and on and on – just as I have done with the Atheist material over all these years. Plus, we have continued to progress and develop as a band – particularly since we completed our lineup with Jonathan Thompson on bass (also on guitar for Atheist).
Working with Kelly was great. It's the first material we collaborated on since Atheist's Unquestionable Presence album. He brought to the recording sessions a fresh, outside perspective and would hear things that we didn't. It was a tremendous help and the CD is better as a result of his involvement.
Maelstrom: There's an insane amount of music packed into the album. How does the process go from creation to completion on an average Gnostic track? Did you consciously try to keep the songs short? Maybe to give the listener a chance to survive the listen, haha.
Steve Flynn: It's a very organic process. We simply sit with a collection of riffs and mold them into a full song. We never set out to make a song long, short, technical, slow, fast or whatever. We just let it unfold naturally based upon the riffs we have and what we think should logically follow.
Maelstrom: The vocals are perhaps a bit of a shock to old school listeners. Perhaps the barrier is a bit high if you come off Atheist and explore the connection to Gnostic. But then again I imagine Gnostic is easier to step into if you come off some of the newer bands in the metal scene. Did the band consciously decide on these type of vocals?
Steve Flynn: I have to say that we are all really surprised by some of the comments regarding the vocals. It seems that many people out there feel that a certain type of vocals MUST accompany a certain type of music. Kevin's vocals, in our opinion, are brutal, and heavy death-metal vocals with overtones of Phil Anselmo and a bit of the screaming you get in a Dillinger Escape Plan type band, which would seem to fit, very well, the style of music we're playing.
I often ask: what SHOULD the vocals sound like? What style SHOULD Gnostic have? Should Gnostic have the cookie-monster style? Should Gnostic have the melodic prog style vocals? Should Gnostic have super low, super high, somewhere in between? At the end of the day, I bristle at the thought that there are rules or "should be's" when it comes to music – PARTICULARLY this genre. I grew up in a band that never followed the rules and was endlessly ridiculed for it. I see no reason to start now. Also, Kevin has an incredibly powerful voice and presence on stage. He's winning over converts at every show.
Maelstrom: Did the band have any influences from newer bands? There are some obvious associations to make when it comes to older bands, but what about some less obvious, newer ones?
Steve Flynn: Sonny Carson, who writes a lot of the riffs for our songs, has a number of modern influences. He loves bands like Origin, Cryptopsy, and similar bands in that genre. But Sonny, as do all of us, have a wide range of influences from old-school metal to modern technical metal like Obscura.
Maelstrom: You guys signed a multi-record deal with Season of Mist. How is the label working out for the band so far?
Steve Flynn: They have been great! They really stepped up their game. They were aggressive in pursuing both Atheist and Gnostic, and we wanted to keep both bands within the same family. We fielded offers from several labels, but it was only Season of Mist that stepped up to the plate to get these deals done. We're proud to be associated with them and look forward to the future.
Maelstrom: I mentioned in my review that this record probably has the highest riff vs. dollar ratio. Add to that all the intense drum parts and you've got a record that is an unebelievable value for money. How have the fans taken to the record? Is there a large audience for this type of metal?
Steve Flynn: First of all, thanks so much for the compliment! It means a lot to us, more than you know.
Second, we've been very, very pleasantly surprised by the primarily positive response to the CD by fans (live and those who bought the CD) and industry / press / reviewers. We were just not sure what to expect. We like Engineering the Rule. We're proud of it, but one never knows how the very, very fickle world of art and music will take to it – particularly in light of the association with Atheist. We had hoped that people would evaluate the CD as a stand-alone entity! We wanted people to know and understand that three of us are in Atheist, but that Gnostic is a totally separate entity with its own style, sound, vibe, and destiny. While inexorably linked with Atheist, Gnostic will follow its own path.
We have been thrilled that most people (reviewers and fans alike) are viewing Gnostic as its own thing. Whether you like Gnostic or not, we just want the music to be given a fair chance. It appears that that's exactly what has happened and we're thrilled!! We're working on the next album now, and I can say with great confidence that it will only get better….at least WE think it will.
Maelstrom: How does the music translate to a live setting? I find that it becomes increasingly harder for a metal band to have any chance of sounding halfway decent the shittier a venue's sound system gets. There's so much going on with Gnostic, how do you guys work out the musical logistics?
Steve Flynn: That's an excellent question!! And, it's something we always struggle with. I think all technical metal bands struggle with that. I fear that given the over-driven style we have, coupled with the complexity, people just can't hear what we're doing when we play a venue with a horrible PA – especially if they don't have the CD as a reference. If they know the songs, it helps. However, as we don't use triggers on the drums or any other enhancements, our music can sound muddy in some settings. Though, with a great PA supporting us, it can sound amazing because we play pretty true to the CD. The CD was recorded basically live, no click tracks, no enhancements. Several of the songs on the CD are ONE take – drum wise. I did all the drums in about 8 hours. So, when we play live, we keep it pretty true to the CD. But, to your point, a solid PA and an EXCELLENT sound engineer is critical!!
Maelstrom: How has the progression been for you as a recording drummer, since your days in Atheist? The drum sound on Engineering the Rule is very tight. Personally, I think the snare is too snappy, in an electronic way. But this is personal preference obviously. How did you go about recording his drums? I imagine there was a lot of electronics involved to keep the drum sound so smooth and loud.
Steve Flynn: Ha, very interesting. As I mention in the above question, the drums are almost totally live. I did, I think, three of the songs in one take. I didn't use a click track – which I think is evident in some parts if you listen close. There were no electronic enhancements of the snare (though I know snare sound is one of those things that bring out strong opinion). The only enhancement was the sound of the bass drum. The kit I used for the album had a muddy sounding kick, so we dialed in a much more clear sound. The toms, snare, everything else is just "eq'd" There isn't even a lot of reverb. We cleaned things up here and there but all in all, it's a pretty raw and live recording.
Maelstrom: What's next for Gnostic? Do you guys have a big tour lined up, or are you already working on new riffs and fills?
Steve Flynn: Atheist and Gnostic just returned from a US tour and are leaving for Europe next week (August 4th). As three of us are in both bands, we're playing two shows per night. It's been an amazing experience.
We're also working on our new CD as I type this.
Thanks so much!!!
Steve