interview by: Roberto Martinelli

Everyone’s got ‘em. Those songs that bring you back to a certain experience you had that was marked by a strong emotional state. Students of a technique called neuro linguistic programming call these things anchors. That’s kind of a cold way to think about it. It’s more like flavors. The Gathering’s latest album, Souvenirs, is about such connections.

It’s certainly been a huge transformation since the group’s first record in 1992, when they were a doom metal band with pinch harmonic riffs, weedy keyboards and growly vocals. From the release of the first Anneke van Giersbergen-fronted record, The Gathering slowly eschewed their metal leanings, but never lost the emotionally heavy yet exquisite melody.

Since their last triumph, 2000's if_then_else, Holland’s favorite melancholic rock band has embraced the jazz/ trip elements from that record and devoted an entire work to them. It’s been a metamorphosis of somewhat Ulverian proportions, which is quite fitting as Kris Rygg, Ulver’s main man, guest sings on Souvenirs. I spoke to drummer Hans Rutten about how things were going.

Maelstrom: Tell me about the new record.

Hans Rutten: This time we worked a lot on the rhythm section. We wanted more drums and bass oriented songs.

Maelstrom: You have a lot more of this jazz-type drumming. It’s more laid back and a lot of interesting use of the high hat. They’re not odd times, but they feel sort of odd. It’s a huge contrast with your first record with Anneke, Mandylion. Just in terms of the drums, it’s a lot more interesting now.

Hans Rutten: Thanks very much. I think so, too.

Maelstrom: What was the impetus that made you start to go in this direction?

Hans Rutten: We never said to each other, “let’s not make a metal record this time.” It just sort of happens. We listen to a lot of music. We let our compositions run freely. There are a lot of exciting bands right now that affect us. We’re not trying to copy them, but we’re trying to rebuild the Gathering sound every album. We had some feedback on if_then_else; we discussed what we liked and what we didn’t like. Things we liked a lot were songs like “Amity” and “Analog Park.” We flirted with a bit of stoner rock things with “Colorado Incident” and “Shot to Pieces,” but it’s not our strongest point. There are better stoner rock bands.

Maelstrom: I don’t think there are enough of them.

Hans Rutten: That also!... We at really at our best at songs like “Amity.” That was the starting point of Souvenirs. Hugo (Geerligs, bass) and I also wanted to achieve something more organic, and as you said, laid back. We wanted to have a groove in it.

Maelstrom: You don’t play with your hi-hat open on the new record. The result is that it’s a lot quieter.

Hans Rutten: It is. It’s all to achieve a crystal clear sound. The bombast is gone. At first we had massive guitars. Those are gone. With an open hi-hat, you fill the entire high spectrum. I come from a doom metal band: Always, our first record, has doom oriented drums. There’s more in life than doom metal. I still love doom metal, but you want to grow and do new things.

Maelstrom: Kris Rygg does a duet with Anneke on the new album. Have you met Kris Rygg?

Hans Rutten: No.

Maelstrom: How did The Gathering hook up with him?

Hans Rutten: I bought the Ulver Perdition City album, and I really loved it. The development of Ulver touched me a lot. It’s more or less the same story as The Gathering. I really love Perdition City very, very much. I think it’s a masterpiece. I sent him an email and wanted to give him a CD. He was very enthusiastic. We sent him a demo, and he sang on it and made some piano lines in his own studio. He promised us that he’d sing this song with us when we play in Oslo, though he hates to play live. It’ll be a very cultish kind of thing.

Maelstrom: You mentioned briefly about things you didn’t like about if_then_else. Like what?

Hans Rutten: Production-wise, it was a total mess. We did some stupid things. Going from analog to digital, some things went wrong. We didn’t have enough time or enough money, so we had to finish the album not totally satisfied, though we were satisfied about a lot of songs. This time, we said to each other that we would finish it first and then make an announcement, which is obviously quite difficult to do. We had already written a good bit of it in 2001. It’s like a good bottle of wine. “Kill your darlings” is a good term for it. We killed a lot of darlings, because we had the time.

Maelstrom: I have to say that in spite of your comments, if_then_else is my favorite Gathering album. I like the songs a lot. Speaking of this record, I wanted to ask you about the last track, “Pathfinder.” It’s a wonderful end to this record. Is there any sort of theme about this? You’ve got this sort of bee-like, humming sound. It’s really wonderful.

Hans Rutten: Well, it’s just a nice title. It was a sort of imaginary film title track. At that time, we wrote the theme from “The Cyclist.” We love to create movies in our head - maybe it’s a stupid hobby - and then write the music to it. That’s what happened with “Pathfinder.”

Maelstrom: One of the big contrasts I find between Souvenirs and the last records is that Souvenirs is a lot more cut and dried. What I mean is, the last two records seemed to have a theme or a lot of parts like on “Pathfinder” or “Analog Park” that have this ambient wandering in it. It gave a lot more fullness to the record, whereas this one sounds like 10 separate songs that start and end.

Hans Rutten: Exactly. We wanted to have a more homogeneous idea. The diversity on the last record was maybe a strong point, yet also a weak point. “Pathfinder” is totally different from “Shot to Pieces.” It’s a bit too much diversity. So we decided to create an atmosphere to stay in for Souvenirs. We wanted too much on if_then_else. It was too much a playground.

Maelstrom: I really discovered if_then_else when I took the promo of it on my trip to Norway in 2000. I went to Bergen and was checking out the famous Fantoft church. It rains in Bergen like, 265 days out of the year. It was pouring down rain, and I’m standing there, listening to my walkman, listening to “Amity.” Whenever I hear that...

Hans Rutten: ...you’re back.

Maelstrom: I’m back there, wandering through these little patches of forest, visiting this church, and it makes me so happy.

Hans Rutten: Exactly. So “Amity” is a musical souvenir for you.

Maelstrom: Yup.

Hans Rutten: Well, that explains a bit the title of Souvenirs. I think that’s the best compliment we can get. “Amity” is connected with some image you have. That’s really great to hear. I have a lot of songs myself - not Gathering songs, of course - that draw me back into time to very good moments; sometimes bad moments. Most of the time good moments: holidays, ex-girlfriends, whatever.

Maelstrom: Can you think of a song that brings you back like that?

Hans Rutten: Well, I’m a big Police fan. If I hear Ghost in the Machine, which was the first album I ever bought, I go back in time to my youth. I’m with my mother and she’s making sandwiches for me. I smell the air, I smell the house, I smell the old cat walking around. When I put on that album, no matter how depressed I am, I’m there again. It’s a sort of catharsis.

Maelstrom: Where do you live in Holland?

Hans Rutten: In live in a small city near the German border, called Nijmegen. It’s a very old city, built by the Romans 2,000 years ago. In fact, I live in a house that dates from the 15th Century, or something. One of the first stone houses in Nijmegen. That’s interesting, and sometimes a bit spooky, because it’s really alive. It’s an organic building. That’s what I really like a lot. I had two American friends from Chicago stay with me, and they didn’t sleep at all. They heard a lot of noises. Not animals or mice...the house is very old and you hear everything.

Maelstrom: What are you most fanatical about?

Hans Rutten: I’m quite fanatical about defending things. It could be my girlfriend, the band, whatever. If somebody comes to the band and says something negative, I’m in flames, really. I’ve got a bad temper. Not killing somebody, but flaming. I know it’s not that good, but it’s there.

Maelstrom: You you’re the aggressive, passionate one in the band?

Hans Rutten: (laugh) Yeah. My brother (René Rutten, guitar) also.

Maelstrom: So it runs in the family.

Hans Rutten: Our name is Rutten. We originally come from Norway. It means “rotten” in Norwegian. I think our ancestors were a bunch of Vikings - really harsh and loud and drinking beer. Roaming and plundering the little Dutch rivers. I think there’s still a bit of that left.

Maelstrom: If you guys are the fierce ones, what about the other people in the band?

Hans Rutten: They’re the more relaxed ones. René and I are by far the most hot-blooded ones. The other ones are always telling us to take it easy. So there’s a balance.

Maelstrom: If you look for Gathering records, you can still find them in the metal section, at least in the United States.

Hans Rutten: In Holland also. It’s a stigma we can’t get rid of.

Maelstrom: You’re not on Century Media anymore, right?

Hans Rutten: No.

Maelstrom: Why not?

Hans Rutten: The contract was fulfilled.

Maelstrom: They gave you pretty good promotion, didn’t they?

Hans Rutten: Maybe in America... We wanted to go on and continue and do something else.

Maelstrom: So you’re on your own label now?

Hans Rutten: Yes, Psychonaut is our own. It’s very good to start our own thing.

Maelstrom: Are you going to have other bands?

Hans Rutten: Not this year. We are a very big band on a very small label, so we have a lot of work. In the end, we will sign bands.

Maelstrom: On your upcoming tours, whom are you playing with?

Hans Rutten: In our tour in Norway, we’ll play with Pale Forest, a very interesting Norwegian band.

Maelstrom: They’re also considered a metal band, though.

Hans Rutten: Yeah, but they’re not metal at all.

Maelstrom: I know, but...

Hans Rutten: ...but they’re still in the metal section, yeah. But, what is metal? Maybe we have to redefine metal, then.

Maelstrom: I’m not arguing with you about that.

Hans Rutten: No, I know.

Maelstrom: It’s kind of funny that you’re going out with bands that are...

Hans Rutten: ...post metal...

Maelstrom: ...considered metal, but there’s nothing really metal about them.

Hans Rutten: There’s a post metal scene going on... Art rock. Of course we still feel connected because we’re still in the metal scene, but we make more friendly music. Strange. I think maybe we have to redefine metal. For me, metal is not only distorted guitars and loud drums and making strange, satanic poses. It’s maybe a bit more broad than everybody thinks.

Maelstrom: For example, we were talking about Kris Rygg before. Kris Rygg sells most of his Jester Records albums through metal channels, even though Jester has nothing to do with metal at all.

Hans Rutten: It’s the darkness. There’s still a sort of doomy darkness that’s present in his material. You have to get connected to something, or else you don’t have an audience at all. You need a starting point, even if you’re a pioneer. With metal, you can experiment a lot. It’s a very healthy, experimental playground.

Maelstrom: Will you see yourself ever playing the Wacken Open Air festival again?

Hans Rutten: Uhh...we’d have to consider it.

Maelstrom: What was your experience like?

Hans Rutten: We played in ‘99, after our American tour. We had enormous jet lag. I don’t even remember anymore. I was half awake. It was a good response. We played quite a lot of How to Measure a Planet songs, so the reaction was quite mellow, which is normal. There was sun, a lot of drunken Germans sitting in the grass.

Maelstrom: Do you think your fan base is mostly male or mostly female?

Hans Rutten: It think it’s around 50/50. It’s good. Metal and rock and alternative kind of people come. It’s really great. We’re really crossing over, and it feels good.

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