interview by: Roberto Martinelli

The band known as Oxbow has become one of Maelstrom’s favorite subjects to write about. Personally, I can say without a doubt that the best interview I’ve ever done is with Oxbow’s singer, Eugene Robinson. There’s a depth to this band that you can delve into, and still not really have a grasp of what all is going on. There’s an equal mix of maturity, preposterous immaturity, wisdom and carnality. It makes for great music, conversation, theater, spectacle... and now it makes for a great movie, too.

Christian Anthony is a web designer. His main gig is running the massive database of porn re-seller Gamelink.com. Yet despite these two activities Anthony is involved in, things that the norm would consider wild or fringe, he seems as solidly regular as any man you’d meet. So in his own way, Anthony was the perfect choice to film a movie documenting Oxbow’s six week, 2002 tour through Europe. I met up with Anthony, and Oxbow guitarist Niko Wenner, to talk about this document on the best art rock band no one will ever hear about.

From the back of Music for Adults, the Oxbow documentary DVD:

“Like those famed tornado chasers, film maker Christian Anthony pursued art rock heavies Oxbow through five countries, two fistfights and a treasure trove of shows to come back with a document that is all at once profane, dangerous, funny, rage-inducing and finally the most succinct take on artistic obscurity that has graced a screen in recent memory. Like the anti-Pennebaker, Anthony scores with a film that no one will care about, about a band no one cares about, for an experinece that everyone will care about.”

Maelstrom: How did you meet Oxbow?

Christian Anthony: When I first moved to San Francisco, an old roommate of mine dated Eugene. I first saw Oxbow at [a bar called] the Chameleon, around ‘93-94. I had no idea what to expect. Eventually I started doing their website. One of the highlights of the site are the tour diaries, written by Eugene and Niko, who are both excellent story tellers. I kept reading the diaries, thinking, “man, if any of this is true, then it’s gotta be pretty interesting to be there in person to witness it.” I back ended myself into making a film about Oxbow. (Anthony, pictured below)

Maelstrom: Is this the first film that you made?

Christian Anthony: Outside of short films in film school, yes.

Maelstrom: Tell us about what you were expecting prior to making the documentary and what eventually did happen.

Christian Anthony: Having never been on tour with a band before, I had no idea [what to expect]. But what was so surprising is these guys are the nicest people in the world. I’m saying this because it’s an amazing juxtaposition with the show itself.

Maelstrom: Can you talk about that?

Christian Anthony: Hanging out, making jokes, being quiet. A long time setting up and tuning. And then, something extremely loud and powerful that stops you dead in your tracks. And on this particular tour, in England, they didn’t have a lot of places to go and not a lot of people knew them. They played small, unusual venues with kids who idolized the Pixies.

Maelstrom: Niko, is there anything particular about this tour that was different than other tours?

Niko Wenner: It had been about four years since we’d been in Europe. And in England, it had been about 10 years. So there was some catching up. But thanks to the association with Neurot Recordings – Neurosis and all those great bands – more people came to the shows that wouldn’t have otherwise.

Christian Anthony: Oxbow would make a horrible reality show, because there’s no drama within the band. Everyone gets along.

Niko Wenner: I think the benefit of playing “cathartic music” is that you get to get shit out on stage.

Maelstrom: There are so many quirky and funny highlights in the movie. What was the most standout part for you?

Christian Anthony: It’s tough to say. There are parts that have quick, entertainment value, and there’s documenting the actual experience. The crux of Oxbow is, you get Eugene up front, which catches everyone’s attention. Those moments are easy to focus on – certainly when naked people jump on stage and he gets into a fight with them... that’s an easy place to go. (Laugh)

Maelstrom: What was going through your head when that happened?

Christian Anthony: The first time that happened was next to Leeds. The tension in the room was unbelievable. It was bands playing this thing called grindcore, which basically is them hammering the guitar while the singer stands back into the audience and screams. It was their clubhouse. Dan (Adams, Oxbow’s bassist) asked if Oxbow could sleaze their way onto the bill. The organizers didn’t know who Oxbow were, and I don’t think Dan knew what to expect either. Oxbow took a long time to set up, the audience was anxious and there were rumors that Oxbow wasn’t into the whole clubhouse scene. So, by the time Oxbow started playing, I thought there was literally going to be a riot. The audience was saying ugly things. It was so intense. That’s when a lot of drunk people came up to the stage. And Eugene is clearly not one to back down from confrontation. That was the show when he threw a glass at the bar. But after the show, they all sat down and talked about it. It showed that it was all an act – that it was part of the tension of the show.

The second time a kid jumped up there naked was in another small town. It was completely out of the blue. I don’t think anyone could explain what that was all about. The audience was into Oxbow, and there were hardcore fans that had driven a long way to get there. But none of this happens anywhere else. They’re rock stars in Germany.

Maelstrom: Niko, what was going through your head when all this happened? Does this kind of thing happen a lot?

Niko Wenner: My job is to play the guitar and pay attention to what I need to. Like the part in the film where the guy takes his pants down and puts his penis between his legs... I didn’t see any of that. For me, it’s about the music that I hear.

Christian Anthony: One of the keys to Oxbow is you have to see them a couple of times. Once you get past Eugene, you think about the music very differently. In fact, when they came back to play the same town near Leeds, word had gotten out and a ton of people showed up. That’s the frustrating thing: if this band toured all the time, they’d get a lot of momentum. But, being a band that makes no money...

Maelstrom: Let’s talk about that. I know that relative to major bands that tour an entire year, 200 some gigs over 30 countries, your version of a long tour is, like, eight weeks?

Niko Wenner: We’ve done a six week tour, in ‘96. Honestly, it just about killed us.

Christian Anthony: That was part of why I wanted to film the movie. Schlepping stuff around, moving in the van, sleeping in the van. This is stuff that 18-year olds on tour up and down the West Coast are doing.

Niko Wenner: I’ve done three month tours with other bands. It makes you crazy, but it’s not as difficult as touring with Oxbow for three weeks.

Maelstrom: How’s that?

Niko Wenner: Just for the touring aspect – driving ourselves and carrying all the gear – every night we try to be as present as possible, to have every moment be as great as possible. It makes the performances completely draining. But at the same token, we can play for 20 people and have it be meaningful and satisfying for everyone.

Maelstrom: I remember Eugene describing it this way: Week 1: Full of energy. Week 2-3: We’re doing good. Week 4-5: I can see the end. Week 6: please get me home.

Christian Anthony: When I showed the Oxbow guys the film, they were pleasantly surprised. Niko said, “I thought it’d be a lot more embarrassing than that.” I had never met Dan or Greg, and I only sort of knew Niko. So it was remarkable how calmly they took me being along, bungling around with my camera. The potential of doing something awful was there. I didn’t want to make a promotional movie about Oxbow, but I also wasn’t interested in getting in all the band cliches or trying to instigate fighting. They were unbelievably respectful.

Maelstrom: Niko, were you concerned that it would be the “Spinal Tap” version of Oxbow?

Niko Wenner: Well, That would have made a compelling film on some level. I think because of our seriousness of purpose, it’s very possible to make us look pompous (Not to say we’re not).

Christian Anthony: I’m thinking about one of the shows in Muenster, where almost nobody came.

Niko Wenner: That was one of my favorite shows. We played a couple of regular songs, and then we played a glimmer, a really long, drone thing.

Christian Anthony: HAHAHAHA!

Niko Wenner: It was half an hour. I’ve wanted to play that for a very long time. One guy in attendance I’ve known since ‘91. He’s an engineer and is a fan. Anyway, we wanted to put on a good show for him – nobody else was there. It was really satisfying.

Christian Anthony: (continues to laugh) See, that’s so classic of the band’s interpretation of a good show. But, you did a long glimmer another time. I ran out of tape. They were playing in Belgium. A lot of fans came out, and they were playing all night. It was a really good show. But if you ask them, they’ll say they didn’t really play that well.

Maelstrom: Can you talk about the editing process? How did you know what to keep and what to throw out?

Christian Anthony: A lot of it had to do with sound quality. The biggest change in the movie, the one that made the most difference was, the movie originally started off with Eugene talking about carrying a pool ball and a sock, and no one suspecting that they could be used together as a weapon.

Maelstrom: That could easily have been very “Spinal Tap”-esque.

Christian Anthony: Exactly. And this is the tricky thing about editing. I knew the context of it. I know Eugene, I know his paranoid quirks, like he won’t sit with his back to a door in a restaurant. But when I started showing it to people who didn’t know about Oxbow, it didn’t make any sense. So I put a strong concert piece in the beginning and let it run, and it made all the difference. By the time the first clip is done, people are thinking, “ok, who are these people?” You’ve introduced the characters, and you’ve got a big shot of Eugene, with the sweaty tattoos, in his underwear. “Now I’m ready to figure out who these guys are.”

Across the board, the people whom I’ve shown the movie to have said, at the beginning they thought you guys were arrogant, pompous, but towards the end, they all wanted to go see you play. That makes me feel good.

Maelstrom: When the film premiered, at ATA in San Francisco, those in attendance already knew about Oxbow. And the screening was a big success. But objectively, for people who have never seen or heard about Oxbow, what would it be like?

Christian Anthony: I showed it again to a bunch of people who didn’t know who they were, and they all got it and enjoyed it. It’s short enough to get who they are. And I feel regret when fans write me and ask, “where’s the rest?” I’d like to go further and find out, how does Niko write the music? What are they really trying to say?

Maelstrom: So what is the glue that has held this group together for so long?

Christian Anthony: Well, there’s tension, but that’s a lot different than conflict. And a lot of that tension makes its way into the performance. There’s a good tension between Eugene and the band. Eugene is flashy and pulls most of the attention. But the band’s insanely talented and can sort of back his, I wouldn’t say, bullshit up. He’s able to go out and do what he does because of his support.

Maelstrom: That’s true. Oxbow is very much about the visual performance, but obviously, when you listen to the CDs, where you don’t get the flashiness, the experience is still just as strong.

Niko Wenner: Yes, it is a performance. And the sound and lyrics are created out of conflict. There’s music that was generated from watching the first Gulf War, or being upset with a particular relationship, and happening to have the guitar there. So there’s tension, creation and working stuff out. As far as creating and recording... I realize we’re not kids anymore. I have enormous amounts of respect for them. They’re some of the best musicians and some of the best singers, actually. And just as people, I really like them.

Maelstrom: Where can we buy the DVD?

Christian Anthony: You can buy it at www.theoxbow.com/musicforadults. You can also buy it at Aquarius Records in San Francisco.