interview by: Roberto Martinelli

When asked, “who is the best metal drummer in Sweden?” Niklas Grabowski, drummer for The Forsaken, said, without hesitation, “Peter Wildoer of Darkane.” We had to look into this. So we bade our time. Darkane’s release of their fourth record, Layers of Lies, was our opportunity. Know that the following interview has practically nothing to do with Layers of Lies or anything else Darkane has ever recorded. Rather, it’s a gratuitous foray deep into drum geek territory.

Maelstrom: What technique do you use when you play bass drums? Do you keep your heel down?

Peter Wildoer: No, I play heel up. I tried to learn the technique that Steve Gadd is using. He was a tap dancer before, and he uses a heel-toe technique for double strokes. He uses the toe first, and then the whole foot. That way your leg is moving half of the time you’re actually playing. I don’t use that when I play double strokes, but when I go fast I’m kind of in-between there.

Maelstrom: Apparently, Gene Hoglan plays all his fast parts with heel down.

Peter Wildoer: Yeah! Yeah!

Maelstrom: I don’t understand that.

Peter Wildoer: Me neither. I think playing heel down is very difficult. It depends also on how strong you want to have the hits. If you want to play really strong, you need to have your heel up. Nowadays, guys like Virgil Donati, they’ve taken it to a new level, in my opinion. Have you seen Virgil?

Maelstrom: I’ve never SEEN him. But I have to wonder: with all these amazing metal drummers that can play so fast and precisely, like Tony Laureano, and a lot of bands whose drummers aren’t famous, and you hear them play... isn’t that just as good as someone like Virgil Donati, or is it not?

Peter Wildoer: In my opinion, Mike Mangini, Virgil Donati... they’re on another level. Their coordination and especially the polyrhythms... like, when I saw Virgil Donati at one of his clinics, he started playing left foot on one hi-hat and right foot on another one. He had a cable hi-hat. Then he started playing five with the left and four with the right. Then he picked up some sticks and started playing three with his right hand against it. And then he started soloing with his left hand: by starting with eighth notes, and then going to sixteenths. I mean, that takes WORK.

But, if you talk about speed... what’s his name? Tim Waterson, the world’s fastest double bass drummer...

Maelstrom: I dunno. There was this one guy from Denmark, Reno Killerich.

Peter Wildoer: Yeah, yeah! I know him!

Maelstrom: Right! One of the things about him is he one some “world’s fastest drummer” competition. He was supposed to have hit the bass drums more than 800 times in a minute.

Peter Wildoer: This other guy is supposed to have hit the bass drums 1,407 times in one minute with his double pedal.

Maelstrom: Oh, my God.

Peter Wildoer: I think it’s on extremesportdrumming.com. (The site shows video of Waterson’s records of 1,407 doubles and 1,030 singles in one minute.) Of course, he doesn’t play very hard, but he has a very sophisticated technique. That’s totally on a different level. I saw some stuff with Mike Mangini today. He played with Steve Vai; he also played with Annihilator – he did two records with them – that guy’s also totally from another planet. He can lead just as well with his left or right hand – it’s exactly the same groove.

I’ve alwyas tried to try out different kinds of music: everything from jazz to fusion... play some Latin and develop that; bring it into the metal music. I also play in other bands. There’s always the drummer for each category. For example, Jon Bonham had his unique sound and groove. Even though people play Led Zeppelin songs, it doesn’t sound like Bonham. It’s not only because he used big drums or stuff like that. He had a unique groove.

It’s about taste. I work as a drum teacher in my home town. Kids will say, “that band or that drummer is crap. I hate their music.” And I say there are really no good or bad music; that’s totally up to each individual. Some people love West Life or Backstreet Boys, some like Cannibal Corpse or In Flames.

Maelstrom: I think about these top drummers. I saw a video of Steve Smith showing off by balancing the stick on his foot while he played the hi-hat with it. I think it’s impressive, but at the same time it doesn’t impress me, ‘cause, when are you going to use that?

Peter Wildoer: Exactly. You can’t hear that on a record!

Maelstrom: I have to wonder about that. For a while, I had it in my head to be able to play any rudiment with my feet. And I asked Paul Bostaph (who’s giving me lessons) what he thought about that. He said, “well, I can’t do it, but I think if I applied myself constantly, I’d be able to, but I’ve never needed to apply something like that.”

Peter Wildoer: In music, no.

Maelstrom: So I wonder: If you’re so much of a drum geek, more power to you. It’s really impressive and you can put on clinics. But... what do you think about this?

Peter Wildoer: It’s a matter of what bands you’re playing with. For example, Virgil Donati and his band Soul Sirkus. I didn’t go to the show because I don’t like the band. The vocalist used to sing with Yngwie Malmsteen. Their music is 80s hard rock music.

Maelstrom: Is it Mark Boals?

Peter Wildoer: No... he’s got a double name...

Maelstrom: Jeff Scott Soto?

Peter Wildoer: Yeah! Jeff Scott Soto. They have Neal Schon on guitar. The bass player is also totally crazy, like Billy Sheehan. But I didn’t go to the show because Virgil plays hard rock songs. It’s like (does basic rock beat), that’s it. And then he’s got a 10 minute drum solo where he shows off and everybody goes crazy. I don’t know how to say this... but to practice that much and play like and then only get to show it for 10 minutes... is it worth it or not? But I’m a total geek: I’m always getting impressed.

Virgil’s playing with Planet X is cool, but he did a record called On the Virg. He’s actually a very good piano player, too. He’s not good, but he can play ok guitar, too. So he wrote everything and all the music is built around his playing on the drums. It’s a killer record. It’s one of my absolute favorite of all time. It’s called Serious Young Insects. There you can hear all these rudiments that you were talking about. He’s playing stuff with his feet that I can hardly play with my hands. Meanwhile he’s playing with his feet and with his hands going against them. It’s like Meshuggah on speed or something. So it makes sense to practice that. I did something like that on the track “The Creation Insane.” But with what you were saying, I sometimes realize that the music gets lost along the way.

Maelstrom: It’s interesting for me to think of all these drummers that I call “the people who are always in the drum magazines,” but who aren’t necessarily in a band that you’d immediately associate.

Peter Wildoer: Yes.

Maelstrom: There’s a guy called Marco Minneman.

Peter Wildoer: Yes, I know who that is.

Maelstrom: I bought one of his books. It came with a CD and I was amazed by how well he could play. But then I heard his music, and it was lacking emotion, or balls... a lot of these guys, they’re awesome, but I don’t want to listen to their various bands.

Peter Wildoer: Definitely. Their books and their practice routines that they come up with are amazing. But as you say, I also listened to his CD, and the music doesn’t appeal to me at all. His drumming is amazing, of course, but it lacks a lot of emotion and groove, in my opinion. It’s not like you can’t sit still when you listen to it. Some bands have so good groove going on, or a good vibe to it. But Marco Minneman, it’s all technique, and really not any emotion in it. He lacks musicality, even though he’s a brilliant guy. The book you got, was it the “Extreme Warmups,” or something?

Maelstrom: Um... “Extreme Interdependence.”

Peter Wildoer: Right! It starts off with the first two exercises as kind of easy, and then it just takes off from there. It’s an amazingly hard book to go through, actually. That’s the kind of stuff that I talk about: a lot of those really good guys, they know all that interdependence: they can play one thing with their left hand, and something else with the right foot while soloing with the right hand. A guy that really took it to the next level is Terry Bozzio. Have you seen his monster kit?

Maelstrom: No.

Peter Wildoer: Everything is tuned in real notes. Like, a piano...

Maelstrom: Oh! Is he the guy who’s obsessed with making melodies with the drums?

Peter Wildoer: Yeah, exactly. He’s got... six bass drums, tuned differently. (See his setup here) I think he’s got twelve pedals, not only for bass drums and hi-hat; one goes to a snare, for example, or metal gear. He’s got TONS of cymbals: I don’t know if it’s like, 30, or something. All the cymbals are also tuned, so he can play melodies. That guy... I’ve seen his instructional videos. He says, “here are some things you can start off with. Play different grooves with your right hand, right foot and left foot. Then, you should play 17 different rudiments in your left hand against three things, and practice all that to be able to improvise later on.” He’s taken it to the next level where you think, “yeah, if I don’t have anything else to do, I can do that.”

Maelstrom: He must not do anything else.

Peter Wildoer: No. That’s the big difference. I always tell my students to try to practice as much as you can while you’re still at home, where your mother calls you for dinner. Because when you move to your own flat and start having your own life, you will not have any time to do that anymore. Guys like Bozzio, they wake up in the morning, drink their coffee, eat their breakfast, and then they go to the rehearsal room to practice or rehearse. They get paid to do it. Anybody can get really good if you get paid for practicing. I would love to practice seven hours a day for pay. The main goal is to get to that level, but it’s very hard.

Maelstrom: Tell me about your kit. What do you play?

Peter Wildoer: Now I play a Tama Starclassic.

Maelstrom: You have the maple one?

Peter Wildoer: No, I actually made a hybrid kit. I’m endorsed through the Swedish wholesaler here. I have maple on my 10", 12", and 14" rack toms. The 14" is to my left and has reinforcement rings. The other two don’t have rings. The 16" and 18" floor toms are in birch. The kick is also in birch. They got it together and put the same laquer on it, so it looks the same.

Maelstrom: How about the snare?

Peter Wildoer: I play a Bill Bruford snare. It’s also birch, and 6.5" deep. Besides the 14" snare. To my left I also have a 10" x 5.5" snare. (You can see Wildoer’s entire set up here) Have you heard of the book The New Breed? It’s by Gary Chester. It’s BRILLIANT for drummers. He looks upon the kit as having a right side and a left side, and that you should be able to play everything with your left or right side. Of course, I’m much better at leading with my right, and I don’t try to be as good with my left. But it’s a great book.

Maelstrom: Why did you pick that wood configuration?

Peter Wildoer: I went to the wholesaler and tried all the different sizes. I tend not to like the deep toms. My 10" is 8" deep, and my 12" is 9" deep.

Maelstrom: The FAST sizes, yeah.

Peter Wildoer: I went there and tried all the maples and birches, with or without reinforcement rings. I think maple sounds clearer in the small toms, but in the bigger ones, I like the birch sound a lot. I also have a Pearl Masterworks; one of those kits where you can have them custom made. I used to have a Pearl endorsement. I also have a Ludwig kit from 1966. The color is sky blue pearl. It’s a brilliant kit, but of course it has a vintage sound to it. That’s for when I play more mellow music, like jazz.

Maelstrom: How about the bass drum? You took birch because of what?

Peter Wildoer: I think it goes a bit deeper in the tone. You can tune a bit deeper and still have the attack of the sound. Maple, in my opinion, has a more open top, so you get more mid-range to it. But the birch is kind of EQed in advance. You’ve got all the highs and the lows, but there is very little mid-frequencies. Of course I’ve played all maple kits, too. My Pearl is maple, but the floor toms and bass drum are half maple, half mahogany, which is the deepest. The Pearl kick drum is the best I ever heard. I didn’t use it on the new record, of course, since I’m endorsed by Tama. It looks good if I use Tama for the pictures! What kind of kit do you play?

Maelstrom: Let’s see. I have a Tama Starclassic Performer.

Peter Wildoer: Yeah, the birch one.

Maelstrom: I also have a Mapex Orion.

Peter Wildoer: Yeah!

Maelstrom: I have a maple kit and a birch kit. One of my bands is about to record its second demo, and I’m trying to figure out what drums to use. I recorded a bit with the maple toms, and they’re so much more rich.

Peter Wildoer: Yes. All the frequencies are there. The Orion kits are brilliant.

Maelstrom: For a while, I was fantasizing about a DW kit. And then I realized that when you get to the top of the line of any make, it’s just about the same thing.

Peter Wildoer: Definitely.

Maelstrom: I think you’re really paying extra for the DW name and hype.

Peter Wildoer: Exactly. I think DW kits in the 80s were brilliant. But during the 90s, for six or seven years, it was actually Mapex doing the shells. So what you were getting was an exclusive Mapex kit. But now, I think they’re getting their shells from Keller.

Maelstrom: Seems everyone gets their shells from there.

Peter Wildoer: They call DW the custom kit, but it’s Keller shells with custom hardware on it. In my opinion, DW is not worth the price. If you want a real custom kit, the only kit you can get is the Pearl Masterworks kit. You can build whatever you want. You can do like an 18" floor tom that is only 6" deep, for example. They only use maple, bich and mahogany, but you can mix and match layers within a drum. I wanted this particular Japanese wood for the outside layer, because I like the look. But I told them I wanted wood with as wavy a grain as possible. And there is not a straight line on the whole kit. They picked all the wood out by hand. Of course, it’s humongously expensive, but you get however you like it. You send them a color sample and they match it.

Maelstrom: Peter, have you heard of that Finnish drum maker called Kumu (http://www.kumu.fi)?

Peter Wildoer: No...

Maelstrom: Oh, my God, it’s my fantasy kit. They make everything by hand from Finnish birch. They’ve got some really cool looking kits. The wife does all the sanding by hand, apparently.

Peter Wildoer: I will definitely check into that.

Maelstrom: Have you heard that band Rotten Sound?

Peter Wildoer: Yes.

Maelstrom: Kai Hahto uses Kumu. Check out his setup here. 

Peter Wildoer: I guess it costs a lot.

Maelstrom: Yeah, a 22" bass drum costs 925 euros.

Peter Wildoer: There are brands like that. Some Australian guys found a log on the bottom of the sea. They made 50 snare drums out of that, in solid pieces. It’s not like plies. Each snare is one solid piece of wood that’s as hard as metal.

(At this point, Peter suddenly realized he had another interview to do, so he cut our immersive drum geek discussion to an end.)