interview by: Roberto Martinelli

One-man project Leviathan is a true black metal fan's dream come true. Leviathan offers the best of all that black metal holds in high regard: obscurity, honesty, detachement from anything commercial, introversion, and most importantly, reeking with the misanthropic chill that sears rapturous madness into the brains of the black metal faithful. Sole band member Wrest himself is a madman in his own right, if only for the speed in which he cranks out his excellent albums. As of this writing, he's up to 10. Read this interview, contact the man, and get some of his material. Every black metal fan worth his spikes owes it to him/herself.

Maelstrom: Please tell us who you are, what you do, and what got you into black metal. This is a fascinating thing, cause basically this is your hobby.

Wrest: Well, I've been in bands before.

Maelstrom: What did you play in?

Wrest: Usually I played drums in bands. I've never been in anything super heavy. I was in this instrumental band from '91 'til '93, and then in '96 a little bit. This band called Gift Horse.

Maelstrom: How old are you?

Wrest: I'm 33.

Maelstrom: You were playing acoustic drums, and you were playing with other people.

Wrest: Yeah. [Playing with others] with the whole Leviathan thing, I really haven't met anybody… I haven't gone out of my way; I don't have an incredible amount of time these days. I've tried to play with some other people recently… When people say they want to play metal, they just want to go as fast as they can, and that's not really…I mean, that's great, but that's not the sound I'm after.

Maelstrom: Listening to your material, it's definitely not in the faster-than-everything-else style of black metal. You flirt with blast beats here and there. You can do 'em. But, for example, on Shadow of No Light, you don't have any blast beats. So, why does that (no blast beats) appeal to you? Because it seems that that's what would appeal to most people, like, "let's play as fast as I can!"

Wrest: I like that stuff. I've only been playing double kick for a year and a half. To me, the stuff that's really dark and creepy says a lot more.

Maelstrom: So what does it for you that's really dark and creepy?

Wrest: Not necessarily super slow, but, the wall of noise. There's something about… not always staying mid-tempo, there's something really hypnotic about the mid-tempo blast beat: The way the bass drum and the bass guitar play, and you can barely differentiate notes on the guitar. It just sounds really…It's hard to explain. It's just like a fog, or something.

Maelstrom: What got you into black metal? You said your last band was Gift Horse, and that it was instrumental. Was that sort of like a math rock band?

Wrest: I wouldn't say math rock. I did try to steer it that way just because I like all kinds of crazy, different drummers. No, it was more like… you could say it was proggy. The guitar player used a lot of effects. It was more like a space rock thing. There was stuff that was really dark, and stuff that was really pretty.

Maelstrom: Were you into metal or black metal the whole time?

Wrest: I've always wanted to do something a lot more heavy. Like, the stuff that I listened to at the time was definitely a lot more pissed off.

Maelstrom: What were you into at the time?

Wrest: At the time… I started listening to metal, of course, when I was in junior high. Iron Maiden, Venom, Thin Lizzy, stuff like that. I guess I was exposed to black metal when I was 16, 17. But as far as the second wave, I think in about '97 a friend of mine brought Burzum Filosofem to the shop. This kid would come and visit me at my work. We had a bunch of friends in common. He's a total music geek. He was like: "You gotta check this out." He gave me that, and it was like: "What the fuck is this?" Then he brought me this band Ved Buens Ende, because he knew I really liked the crazy drums. Carl-Michael. That guy's sick. And that's totally different. It's one of my favorites, but it's definitely an acquired taste. A lot of people don't really dig that.

Maelstrom: That music in general, or that album in particular?

Wrest: People love Filosofem. People don't really dig the Ved Buens Ende vocals.

Maelstrom: Yeah, they're kind of like bad goth vocals. That's what people call 'em.

Wrest: I think they're great.

Maelstrom: It's fitting that you mentioned Filosofem as being your big turning point because when I first heard your stuff, I thought: "That sounds a lot like Filosofem. He must've gotten that from there." The kind of bodiless, industrial-effect vocals.

Wrest: I think that, and - it's kind of obvious by listening - Transilvanian Hunger too. That was a whole record with basically the same tempo. I like death metal a lot, and I've definitely seen death metal bands that have blown me away, but there's something about the notes that Darkthrone and other black metal…

Maelstrom: Yeah, the simple melodies and minimalistic stuff.

Wrest: That, and it's just the choice of notes. Not necessarily [because] it's more melodic. I can compare it to bands that aren't black metal. It sounds like sped up Killing Joke. Which I really dig.

Maelstrom: How do you do your vocals? You must run them through an effect.

Wrest: Well, it's a pretty low-tech way I do it. I use this line six guitar pod.

Maelstrom: What's that?

Wrest: It's a direct box. Everything I do is on a Tascam four track. I do it all in my house.

Maelstrom: At first I didn't realize that you play drum triggers.

Wrest: It's a Roland digital kit.

Maelstrom: When I was listening to Seven, you can kind of tell on the snare, but mostly because it's louder (than the albums on tape).

Wrest: The cymbals. They always sound the same.

Maelstrom: You don't have any of that crappy, boxey kick drum sound.

Wrest: This thing's got 800 sounds. It had 500 at first and then I got this upgrade deal, and now it's got eight. So I've got all these different kick drums. I end up using the same stuff.

Maelstrom: What's the point of having hundreds of sounds if you just need to use one?

Wrest: Well, there's wind chimes, and…I do use different kick drums but through the four track, I've just barely scratched the surface as to what works and what doesn't. I haven't completely figured it out.

Maelstrom: What really makes you like using the vocals that you do? They all go through that effect: Either they're low and croaky or that have that bodiless, strong rasp to them. Have you ever thought of doing vocals without the effect, or is that what really works for you?

Wrest: I use effects because otherwise on the four track it just sounds like shit. So I use delay on it, just because I like how it sounds. The low croaky thing; I just like the way it sounds.

Maelstrom: Yeah, it's excellent. I can't remember what song it is on Shadow of No Light, but it's a really ambient part of the song that it breaks into, and you have the low croak that happens.

Wrest: Yeah, it's probably "Blood Red and True," the last song. It's really slow. That's probably my favorite one on the whole album.

Maelstrom: Steve (a.k.a. Stevil) at Amoeba (Music in San Francisco) has put your tapes out.

Wrest: It's not something that I ever woulda done.

Maelstrom: So, this is something that you just do for yourself?

Wrest: I did it for myself, and I did it maybe to get some other people to play with. It's just because I was never in a band where I was playing stuff that I'd be like: "Yeah, I would buy this." Like Gift Horse, I woulda bought it, and it was cool, but there was a lot of pop directions - which was cool - but I just can't imagine myself playing in a pop band. They definitely weren't as angry as I am. You know, in a musical taste.

Maelstrom: Do you think you're a really angry person, and that's what appeals to you about black metal and metal? Or are you a person with a subdued personality, and that opposites attract?

Wrest: Well, if you looked at some of my favorite records, I guess you'd say I was a pretty angry person, or a pretty sad person.

Maelstrom: That stuff definitely comes out in your music.

Wrest: Yeah, all my lyrics are fucked up; pretty angry stuff.

Maelstrom: Do you ever plan on putting lyrics in with your albums? It'd be interesting to see what they are.

Wrest: Yeah. I'm trying to put something out on tUMULt Records right now.

Maelstrom: How's that going?

Wrest: It's cool! I mean, it's slow, but it's cool that Andee (tUMULt owner) asked me to do it because he put out a couple bands from town, like this one band Weakling…

Maelstrom: Absolutely, they're one of my favorites.

Wrest: Also Hammers of Misfortune.

Maelstrom: That's a great album too.

Wrest: Two of those guys are in the only black metal band in town.

Maelstrom: It seems that you pop up on everyone's play list. I talked to Steve, and I talked to Andee, and Jeff Tuel, and I don't know who else, and they were like: "Yeah, we're gonna jam with Leviathan!" and get a band together.

Wrest: Yeah! See, all these people have been so encouraging. I've given Leviathan stuff, and there's this other thing that I do, it's not really metal, it's kind of more mathy (it's called Renfield. Look out for a review of it in issue #6. - Roberto). It sounds like lo-fi, 4 A.D. kind of thing. No vocals. I'd given it to this woman Yoko who works at Amoeba and she's just like: "Oh, Stevil wants to meet you." And he said: "We'll sell your tapes," and I was like: "Ahhh, geez…" I'm always lookin' in the used bins to see how many have come back.

Maelstrom: Yeah, Steve told me that you saw a couple and you were upset.

Wrest: Well, whatever. That's gonna happen.

Maelstrom: Yeah, it is gonna happen, but considering how many have come back, you've done really, really well. So, how do you deal with this success? You're getting signed to a label, and you're selling records all of a sudden. How do you feel about it?

Wrest: I think it's really cool. It's definitely encouraging. Lately, the stuff is kind of changing. I don't know if you'll be able to tell by listening to Nine (Inclement Derision).

Maelstrom: Your production is definitely getting…louder. That was the big thing (problem) with Misanthropic (Necro Blasphemy): You had to really turn it up to hear it. I think it was Seven where you had a folky interlude.

Wrest: I'm pretty affected by what I listen to. Not that I try to imitate it, but it just happens to anybody. I'm a real big Kampfar fan. I can't even explain why I like the bands I really dig. That's why [Leviathan's] kind of all over the place. You know what I mean? There's stuff that sounds Celtic Frost… I love Celtic Frost. All the "heyyy!" I love that shit.

Maelstrom: Yeah, you can hear a lot of it.

Wrest: It's silly, but in that silliness, it's completely honest. And that's something that attracts me to metal. Everyone goes: "Oh, metal: the fuckin' dumb loner who's into his computer, or playing video games," or whatever. But I identify with that way more than I do with some bowl haircut, tight pants Nigel kid. [Metal]'s not hip. And I love it.

Maelstrom: I agree. That's what I like about metal too. I don't know about you, but I'm like one of the least hip people that I know, and it's perfectly fine with me.

Wrest: Yeah, but finding girls that are into it is kinda hard.

Maelstrom: I think it's easier to find them in Europe, but even then…

Wrest: It's a lot easier to find them into the Dimmu Borgir [style], where there's a lot of goth thrown in there, or kind of a pretty-boy, Cradle of Filth, or whatever.

Maelstrom: Do you think there's a place for that, or do you not like that stuff?

Wrest: I don't like Cradle of Filth at all. Dimmu Borgir's new album, I can't dislike it. It's insane. But the last couple ones…I didn't like anything since Stormblåst.

Maelstrom: Tell me about the changes on Nine.

Wrest: Seven's old stuff. I think what came out of the four-track on Nine sounds better. Seven's a bunch of old songs; the guitars are too loud or the drums are too low. The songs on Nine go together better; they seem like full songs. There's a lot of slower stuff. There's a lot of stuff that really wouldn't be considered black metal: there's some odd time stuff that sounds like Today is the Day or some kinda mathy thing. And then there's some slower, Swans [style] washed out stuff with delay on it. It doesn't really sound like anything I've tried before. I started dropping the E to B.

Maelstrom: Please explain that.

Wrest: A lot of people on Relapse do it. Neurosis plays in drop B. It sounds a bit heavier. But when you're strumming, that wall o' noise, black metal thing, it sounds different. You just change the tuning pegs. You move one string down. I think that's how Neil Young wrote "Cinnamon Girl." The Melvins do it a lot. I did it to help me write different stuff. Sometimes I feel like I'm just writin' the same thing over and over and over again.

Maelstrom: Do you like getting feedback from people?

Wrest: Oh, totally. People compare [Leviathan] to [other] bands. Like you compared something (it was a track on Shadow of No Light - Roberto) to the first song on (Enslaved's) Eld? I'd never heard that record, so I went out and bought it.

Maelstrom: What a coincidence, then. Did you hear what I was talking about?

Wrest: Yeah, totally. I like that record a lot. I like all the clean vocals.

Maelstrom: So, tell me more about your tattooing career. One of the last days I was in San Francisco, I went by Amoeba, and Steve showed me that you did a tattoo of Mortiis…

Wrest: Oh, yeah! Comin' out of someone's shoulder! I actually did that on somebody else that's encouraged me a lot. The guy that brought in Filosofem - a friend on mine, Gus - him and the guy who wears the Mortiis are in a band called The Monitors. It used to be, to me, this Texas-ey, Ed Hull, Butthole Surfers sounding thing. Now they could almost be put in with Fleurety. They're just so fucking weird. It's all drum machine, one guitar, keyboards. They're totally into the tech thing. It's kinda like…cyber…nymph metal. And the names of their songs are like "Forest Porn." They definitely have a sense of humor. They're pretty into it. Anyway, Jim got the Mortiis. Like, the whole tattoo thing, the tear through, kind of like a tiger or something, is really fuckin' cheesy. But that Mortiis tearin' through the skin is pretty awesome. It's funny, but I was really stoked to do it.

Maelstrom: Where did you grow up, Jef?

Wrest: I was born in Southern California, and I lived in San Francisco for 17 years.

Maelstrom: What got you into tattooing?

Wrest: I used to skate, and I'd skate with these guys that had really good tattoos. I've always drawn, and I did skateboard graphics for a while. I just kinda fell into it: I started getting tattooed, and I reluctantly tried it and just fell in love with it, and went from there.

Maelstrom: Steve said there's a pretty good waiting list to get you. You tour, and you do a lot of work.

Wrest: I've been doin' it for 10 years. It's kind of hard to say. I can definitely see my weak points and stuff like that. I'm getting ready to start traveling a lot more. I might be leaving San Francisco soon, who knows? Just gotta figure out where to go.

Maelstrom: Why do you feel like you have to leave San Francisco?

Wrest: I've been here 17 years and I want to see what else there is. Which is also kind of tricky, because I've been here 17 years and I know this place like the back of my hand.

Maelstrom: Where did you learn to play all these instruments? It mustn't be a small thing to play all this stuff.

Wrest: I've been playing drums for as long as I can remember. My uncle had a drum set, and sometimes he would take it down out of the attic and let me fool around on it. I didn't have my first drum set until I was 18. I had a guitar when I was 13, learning Black Sabbath stuff, Iron Maiden, any kind of punk rock, or whatever. I started playing bass when I was 18 too. When I was 26, about 1995, - I had already been in Gift Horse since '91 - I started collecting stuff around the house. I bought a four track and let it sit around for a year, until a friend of mine was like: "Have you used it yet?" And I was like: "No…" I didn't know how it worked. It was totally simple. And then I started doing it, and now I can't stop. Like, since last Wednesday I've already done another eight songs.

Maelstrom: You have all this material. So, when you release this thing on Tumult, what are you gonna put out?

Wrest: That's what we're trying to figure out.

Maelstrom: When can we expect this stuff to come out?

Wrest: Well, it was supposed to come out in the summer, and it's just goin' by what [Andee has money for]. He's trying to put out a Japanese band called Solar Anus.

Maelstrom: Yeah, he told me about that, that he loves it because it's "so retarded."

Wrest: Yeah, I guess it sounds like Saint Vitus, if they had Downs Syndrome. He was saying [releasing both] at the same time. This kid that I worked with painted the cover. I haven't even showed it to [Andee] yet, I haven't had time, but it's fuckin' pretty cool.

Maelstrom: Are you gonna have a double CD? 'Cause Andee said he loves those.

Wrest: No, I don't think so. I think that's a little bit bold for a first [album].

Maelstrom: Are you gonna re-record everything, or keep it as it is?

Wrest: He wants to use the tapes. I mean, the tapes are cool, but the stuff he wants to use are the second and the third tape. I don't think you've heard those.

Maelstrom: I have the third one, but I haven't listened to it that thoroughly. Is this stuff that you're embarrassed about?

Wrest: No, it's just that [with] the blast beats, I hadn't figured out how to make the snare sound loud. And as I'm goin' along, I've gotten better at double kick… The vocals would be too loud, I didn't learn how to mix it, but that's kinda what he likes about it. To him that's what makes it cult. I don't know, the songs could be structured better. Somewhere in between, of course, it's just a four track. Some of the stuff I've tried to do would sound better if I recorded it in a studio, and some of the stuff sounds fine just as it is, you know?

Maelstrom: Speaking of cult, imagine you get this deal, and you put out some albums, and maybe you get a four or five record deal, do you think you'd adhere to using a four track and keep this sound, or do you think you'd like to go with an eight track, or a sixteen track, and go to a studio?

Wrest: Maybe for some stuff. But for the stuff with the wall of noise, it doesn't really need it.

Maelstrom: Is that more cult? Is that more black metal, to have this underground four track sound, or is it not necessarily?

Wrest: For me to define what black metal is, is kind of really ridiculous. I think there's a lot of, especially in America, there's a lot of people that are playing death metal with their faces painted and calling it black metal.

Maelstrom: Can you define what the differences are between them? Because, that's an interesting point.

Wrest: Death metal to me is in the lyrics. Black metal seems a little more spiritual to me. And it's not necessarily negative.

Maelstrom: But you can't understand what they're saying.

Wrest: You can totally tell what they're saying. There's a lot of black metal that I like where you can totally tell what they're saying. It's more open notes rain (?) being strummed. I mean, death metal is definitely more technical, "look at me, lookatme lookatme lookatme." Some of it doesn't move me. Some of it does.

Maelstrom: What moves you?

Wrest: Undeniably Nile. Anything from Nile to Cynic. I don't want to get into a whole genre thing, but Death is one of the first ones. Anything from Leprosy to The Sound of Perseverance. The Sound of Perseverance is such a fucking great metal record.

Maelstrom: That drummer (Richard Christy) is unbelievable.

Wrest: I've seen videos of it and put it on slo-mo, and I still could never…And he makes it look super easy, too. There's the whole melodic death metal thing, like the whole Gothenburg thing, which is cool.

Maelstrom: Do you think that's death metal?

Wrest: I wouldn't know what else to call it. It's definitely not black metal. Black metal to me is about everything that you could think of that's fucked up. I mean, there's bands that [embody] black metal without being [black metal]. Today is the Day to me is the total misanthropic, fuckin' hatred of everything, trust no one black metal band. But it's totally progressive and kinda noisy. Ideally, it seems like total black metal in spirit. All there is is being fucked, and it's fucked, and I don't know how else to say it. It's just definitely something I can relate to. But the notes in that reflect it, too: how dark, and just how dismal. But there's a beauty to black metal too. Without being romantic; I'm not a big fan of the whole synth thing. It's fine for some people, but I'm just not that interested in it.

Maelstrom: You ever heard of a band called Thy Primordial? (hey! Interviewed in this issue!)

Wrest: Yeah! I really like the first record.

Maelstrom: The (Where Only the) Seasons Mark the Paths of Time? The blue cover?

Wrest: No, the black and gray cover.

Maelstrom: Oh, that's their demo.

Wrest: That's the only one I like. I've heard the other ones. It just sounds like everything else.

Maelstrom: The reason I brought them up just because they're one of those bands that use no keyboards, but they have lots of melodies and harmonies. They have the twin guitars that are always going.

Wrest: They overdo that a lot. Abigor does that a lot. Then there's bands that have keyboards that I like.

Maelstrom: Well, Weakling, obviously.

Wrest: Yeah. The song writing in that, as far as American bands that I've heard, it's fucking right on it. You know what I mean? I really like Thy Infernal, too. I just got their new one, Warlords of Hell. It's fuckin' nuts.

Maelstrom: Do you think that Norway's is the scene to beat?

Wrest: Most of the bands that I like are from Norway, but I like Destroyer 666's Phoenix Rising, the last one. That record's amazing, and they're from fuckin' Australia. As far as scenes: A scene means hangin' out and being a scenester and all that shit, which I'm not interested in. I'm definitely not part of the San Francisco metal scene. I know some people in it.

Maelstrom: I think I meant more in terms of the strength of the music.

Wrest: Well, as far as black metal, yeah. Without talking shit, I think that definitely the stuff that I'd rather listen to comes from Europe.

Maelstrom: It's been pretty cool of you to talk to us. Is there anything else you'd like to mention that we haven't covered?

Wrest: I'd just like to thank Stevil, and Andee, and Jeff Tuel and Yoko.

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