interview by: Roberto Martinelli

In terms of his presence on the world scene, drummer George Kollias’ rise is something of a rags to riches story. Consider that he joined Nile in 2004, and hadn’t witnessed a death metal drummer play live until the band he was in played support for Nile in 2003. Between that time, he met one of his idols, Derek Roddy, and has propelled his career to a height commensurate with other front-runners in the style, like Tony Laureano, Flo Mounier, John Longstreth, and Roddy himself.

Indeed, Kollias’ introduction to the world death metal scene seemed to come out of nowhere. But he’s risen to the occasion, something you can hear on the records he’s released, the shows he plays, the videos featuring him on YouTube, and now, on his instructional DVD, Intense Metal Drumming. We met up with Kollias during a Nile Ithyphallic US tour in 2008 to talk about his playing, and attitudes and preferences about how metal drums should be approached.

Maelstrom: You’ve now done two albums with Nile. Can you talk about any difference in approach to recording?

George Kollias (above): I was really stressed on the first record. I thought things would be different, or rather, like recording in the studios in my own country, and I had done 35-40 in various projects before recording with Nile. It was a great experience, anyway.

Maelstrom: I didn’t realize it was so many. You don’t mention them on your discography.

George Kollias: I feel that most of them don’t represent me. I did them as a session member, or I was hired... not that I got paid.

I thought maybe I wouldn’t have enough experience for Annihilation of the Wicked, but I completed my parts in three days. It went fast, even though we would not do more than three songs a day, even if I was in the mood to do more.

The second album was not so stressful. We had been together more than three years together, so it all went fast. It took about a day to write each song. We did take more time in the studio. We spent much attention to drum sounds with our producer, Neil Kernon, who did a great job. I used my Gabriel drums, which sound wonderful on the album. We were more careful than on Annihilation, and I believe we did good.

Maelstrom: From In Their Darkened Shrines, to the first album you appear on, Annihilation of the Wicked, Nile got a lot cleaner sounding. And then it got a lot cleaner on Ithyphallic. This is mostly in the guitars, but your drums do sound more sonically focused and... sampled. What process resulted in these drum sounds?

George Kollias: On Annihilation, we used a very cheap drum set, a Pearl Export. But it sounded good. We had a very nice snare, a Ludwig Black Beauty. But in the final mix, we thought the drums were too low. People complained.

Maelstrom: You think the drums are too low? Really? I think you can hear everything.

George Kollias: mmm... The toms and the snare don’t have the energy I wanted. That’s why we spent so much more time on the sounds for Ithyphallic. The sound engineer spent more than seven hours tuning the drums. And of course, the drum set is much higher quality.

But the drum sounds on the album are all natural. Except the kick drums. I used my Alesis D4 for samples (not for triggering. The D4 is ok for live, but it’s not professional enough for studio use), and also miked the kicks, and replaced the waves with samples from the D4. But not in a shitty way. Nile is not one of these bands that fixes drums in the studio. Never. Same with replacing — we don’t do that, except for kicks.

We made sure to have more attack on the drums in the slow songs. As you know, Nile has really fast stuff, but we have really slow stuff, also. I try to play heavy and loud during those sections. For example, you cannot play Metallica songs if you do not hit the drums, to get this energy.

But miking the drums was simple. We used Shure SM57s for both snares, AKG D112's for the kick drums (although I prefer the Shure Beta 52s — you get more attack. The D112's have more of a boomy sound, but with the samples, it came out great), Sennheiser Evolution 604s for the toms. We used five overhead mics, which is odd for me, but it’s a Neil Kernon thing, and he’s the best.

Maelstrom: Who mixed Annihilation?

George Kollias: Kernon did. I like the sounds on both albums, it’s just Annihilation’s final mix I’m not into.

By the way, there was no mic for the bottom of the snare.

Maelstrom: Why not?

George Kollias: He doesn’t like it. I don’t like it, either. I prefer having the attack of the snare only (from the top mic). The bottom [rattle of the snare wires] comes through enough in the kick drum mics. I also record in my practice studio in Greece. I have the same set up, with everything miked. I record into a Firewire mixer with 24 channels.

It’s been funny to notice that everyone in the States uses a mic on the snare bottom; but people from Europe don’t... and Neil Kernon is from England.

Maelstrom: Did you use his studio?

George Kollias: No, we recorded at the Sound Lab studios in South Carolina. Neil Kernon lives in Chicago, but he travels for jobs.

Maelstrom: What was the drum room like?

George Kollias: Sound Lab’s drum room used to be very, very small. To be honest, I don’t think that room could fit my kit. So on the first day of recording Annihilation, Neil got us a bigger room. It was much better. The drums could be more alive. I remember the side walls had cork on them.

Maelstrom: Do you understand my surprise that you say the drums on Ithyphallic are not sampled? I mean, it sounds impossibly clear and distinct. How did he do that?

George Kollias: I wish I knew. I’d do the same on my own recordings at home. It’s some sort of Neil Kernon trick. I saw him work some of it, but I can tell you that there’s nothing special. Like I said, it’s the same drums as I have at home. I don’t know if I told you about my DVD, but I record the songs from Nile in my own studio to show how I did them. I used my cheap Firewire mixer, and even cheaper overhead mics, and you will be surprised how close my mix of the Ithyphallic songs are to the studio mix.

Live, everybody talks about the drum sound. Everybody. They say it’s so clean. Of course, this has to do with the drummer, but the drums I play are amazing.

Maelstrom: Let’s talk about your set up, and why it is that way. You play 22" kick drums. Most every kick drum on today’s market is 22"x18". That’s almost the default. But if you’re going for speed (and you’re using samples on top of that) why not use 20"s, or 18"s? You could also get your toms lower! Also, all death metal drummers sample their kicks, yes? And the samples they use sound like they are coming from a smaller drum, that has more attack. So why not use a smaller drum in the first place?

George Kollias: Yeah, yeah. You’re 100% right. But I believe I’m kind of dumb. I come from the old school of drummers like Igor Cavalera, Dave Lombardo, and Paul Bostaph — one of my favorites. 22" kick drums sound so much more powerful. Also, I like the space inside them. I don’t use any muffling. I love the natural sound. Other than the sound, I like the set up that way. I know it’s easier to play on 20"s or 18"s... but the thing with me is that I’m not into today’s death metal drummers. That doesn’t mean I don’t like newer drummers, but I don’t follow the newer practices and mentality. I see death metal drummers that only do blast beats and fast double bass. And if that’s all you can do, you’re not a drummer! I see drummers getting stuck on that. I say, "guys, you need to open your mind a little bit." If you have an e-kit or 18" kicks, you can blast, no sweat. And I don’t support this; I prefer real drummers. And Derek Roddy is a great example.

Newer death metal drummers have a really low set up. Sure, you can move around the set much faster, but I think it loses some of the energy.

Maelstrom: How so?

George Kollias: I see shortcuts like two-foot blasts, and [gravity] blasts... I never do two-foot blasts, unless it’s a bomb blast. Blasts are with one foot. That’s how I learned it.

Maelstrom: Whom did you learn that from?

George Kollias: Pete Sandoval. Living in Greece, it was hard to see what these guys were doing. I first saw a death metal drummer play live when a band I was in played support for Nile, in 2003. Before that, I had been coming from an older school, like Paul Bostpah’s. I understood how they hit, and how much energy they put into that. I didn’t kow the finger techniques or about the low set ups, or about the weird settings on the pedals so the beaters were closer to the head.

Maelstrom: I can’t understand how you can get a full hit in on all of your blast beats.

George Kollias: It’s how I learned. It’s the same thing with the sticks. Some people play with their sticks very close to the drum. Others, like Derek Roddy, use the upstroke a lot in their playing. It’s the same thing in my foot work. I swing the pedal a lot. I don’t use my ankles.

Maelstrom: I have noticed you swing your ankle side to side.

George Kollias: I first started doing that when I read in "Modern Drummer" that Derek Roddy does that.

Maelstrom: Years ago, I started doing that unconsciously, but I think it started to hurt my ankle. I took a few lessons from Paul Bostaph, and he told me to stop doing that. Then again, it might have been the shoes I wore at the time... they cut into my Achilles.

George Kollias: I have a story for you. In 2005, on tour, I first met Paul Bostaph. He had noticed my swivel thing, and asked about it. On our second show, he used it! And he came to me and said, "man! It fucking works! It’s awesome!"

Maelstrom: Do you use gravity blasts?

George Kollias: I don’t. I do use single-hand rolls, but I don’t like the gravity blasts. I hate the way it sounds.

Maelstrom: When I heard Nile had a new drummer, and he was from the Greek band Nightfall, it seemed strange. I mean, Nightfall are nothing like Nile, yeah?

George Kollias: Nothing at all.

Maelstrom: But they chose you. And you can play Nile’s stuff!

George Kollias: When Nightfall’s first album came out, I was a big fan. They used to have blast beats. The drummer was very good, probably one of the three great drummers Greece produced. He was a one-footer. He quit the band pretty early, like in 1997. I remember when I moved to Athens, and they offered me the job, I was like "ok. You guys don’t play the way you used to, but I’m still a fan." It was a good experience. We played Wacken and did some short tours, like to Cyprus.

My drumming started getting noticed with Sickening Horror, the brutal, technical, jazzy death metal band I was in. Derek Roddy noticed. I gave him one of the CDs, and he started talking about it on the forum on his site. He told me I should make a video, and come to the States to play. I was like, "whatever." But for Sickening Horror’s following show, I thought to record myself playing. Derek forced me to post it, and I did. And here we are.

I was 12 when I started playing drums. The first 9 years, I played by myself. I remember the first three years, I tried to get some videos, or something. But all I could really get was some Whitesnake videos. I’d watch bands like Guns n Roses, and try to learn. Like, the skank beat — is it quarter notes on the ride cymbal? Is it eighth notes? I knew nothing. Nothing.

But! I was lucky. I trained my ears so I could hear everything. I have tapes from ‘91 of me playing "Angel of Death" and "War Ensemble" perfectly at 13. I worked really hard, mostly on furniture, because I couldn’t play my drum kit. So when I finally started practicing at rental studios, I was so excited at the energy there, being able to release all my passions on a real drum kit.

I got into music more and more. I’ve played guitar for 20 years. I used to write songs for my first band, and also do vocals live. Until ‘99, I did everything by myself. Then, I took some lessons from a jazz drummer in Greece. That’s when I made a big step. Whatever is about death metal, I learned by myself. No one showed me.

I also trained my eyes. So when I saw Derek Roddy live for the first time in 2004, I was like a hard disk, copying everything. I watched the motions, and how high he sat. I figured out that if I sat high, I could move my ankles faster. I figured this all out, and found that there’s one way to do it.

Maelstrom: What do you mean?

George Kollias: If you want to play 16^th notes at 260bpm like other drummers who do that, watch them. They all do the same thing. Ok, you can sit a little higher or lower, or swivel more or less, but it’s 95% close. It’s like if you want to have a good blast beat — you need to use the upstroke. You need to lock the roll between your kick drum and snare.

For the gravity blast, I first learned it from my teacher as a single-hand roll. Then I learned that some death metal drummers were using it. I started by playing some five- or seven-stroke rolls with one hand, like downstroke, upstroke, downstroke, upstroke, downstroke. Pause. Repeat, but start with the upstroke, so it’s the opposite. You can use this technique in your music in a lot of ways, and in a lot more musical way than with the gravity blast. For example, look at Johnny Rabb. He took something and created a whole new concept that nobody else can do.

Maelstrom: How much would you say you need to be in shape to do what you do? It doesn’t seem like you move all that much. After one day of recording, are you burnt out? How about at the end of a show?

George Kollias: There’s a lot more energy put out at shows. You see the crowd, and you give everything you’ve got. If you die after one day in the studio, don’t even bother to go out on the road. Or, if you go on the road, you’ll find that if you go into the studio, it’s easier and you’re better.

I try to have my body in a good harmony. For example, on fills, I make sure I’m in, and then I’m out. For me, it’s one motion. Also, about the swivel again: I do it not really for speed, but it helps me with my balance. You’ll see drummers like Tim Yeung, Pete Sandoval use it. Even Thomas Lang has some, and Virgil Donati.